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Old December 31, 2012, 09:51 AM   #26
dahermit
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Quote:
For me the cant is more about weight distribution. With a three and a half inch barrel 1911, the weight of the grip with full magazine in a vertical weighs more than the slide and makes the gun feel top heavy almost like it will fall out of the holster backwards.
With the holster canted the weight is distributed vertically, and balances on my hip better.
Ah, something new to consider.
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Old December 31, 2012, 07:37 PM   #27
saltydog452
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The 'Tom Threepersons' or 'Slim Jim' straight-up vertical draw rig might be the cat's whiskers for a skinny Matt Dillon facing a bad guy head on, on a dusty street.

Use whatever suits your needs as you see them. Decisions don't require a Anatomy, Kniseology, or Mechanical Engerning background to justify a choice.

Maybe I didn't understand the original post.?

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Old January 1, 2013, 07:59 AM   #28
treg
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I find that a forward cant helps keep the the butt of the gun tucked into your body and hidden better by keeping the hypotenuse of the gun triangle as close to parallel to the axis of the body as possible.
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Old January 1, 2013, 09:45 AM   #29
Captains1911
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Forward cant helps conceals the gun much better for me. I also find it more comfortable when seated.
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Old January 1, 2013, 09:59 AM   #30
dahermit
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Use whatever suits your needs as you see them. Decisions don't require a Anatomy, Kniseology, or Mechanical Engerning background to justify a choice.

Maybe I didn't understand the original post.?
Was looking for any unanticipated, subtle reasons for using the butt forward that I may have been unaware of. And the post worked, got at least one reason I had not thought of. All of us, no matter how big the ego, can learn something that can result in better decisions and will add to one's personal data base of knowledge on a subject. If one does not investigate the reasons for something, one would not logically know what would suit one's needs.
In my personal situation, I have been making leather holsters to sell on Ebay as a hobby for when I am recovering from heart surgery. When I offer them for sale, I want to be able to state logical reasons for the design (including cant or lack of it). With the information gleaned from such posts as appear here, I can appeal to the more discriminating potential customer. For instance, I may say something like: "This holster due to its forward cant, will balance a 1911 with a full magazine better than the vertical position, avoiding the top heavy feel. With the holster canted, the weight is distributed on its vertically axis, and will balance on your hip better."
Despite having used handguns since the middle sixties, I do not have a lot of experience, that I can draw on, because I only use pocket carry for concealed with a .38 snubbie. Which tells me nothing about larger guns, belt carry, carrying a 1911, etc. My only belt carry was related to carrying out to my range, or in my woods, or hunting. Nowadays there are so many people carrying differently, I can learn from their experiences relative to gun leather...it would be pointless to make holsters that did not relate to a potential customer's needs.
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Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

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Last edited by dahermit; January 1, 2013 at 10:28 AM.
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Old January 1, 2013, 02:14 PM   #31
treg
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Quote:
"This holster due to its forward cant, will balance a 1911 with a full magazine better than the vertical position, avoiding the top heavy feel. With the holster canted, the weight is distributed on its vertically axis, and will balance on your hip better."
Very nice.

The problem I have / see with most forward cant holsters is that the gun must be pulled forward or vertical at best to get it out. I prefer the ability to draw with a rearward motion or rock if you will. Try to do Bill Jordans exercise of placing a flash bulb on the back of your hand above the holster and draw quick enough for the ball to drop into the holster with most forward cant holsters. I see this as especialy important for civilian carry as we cannot draw until we're in imminent danger which could put the BG very close or on top of us. A rearward, defensive draw could be vital in keeping the gun out of BG's hands and allowing its use.
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Old January 1, 2013, 03:01 PM   #32
dahermit
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The problem I have / see with most forward cant holsters is that the gun must be pulled forward or vertical at best to get it out. I prefer the ability to draw with a rearward motion or rock if you will. Try to do Bill Jordans exercise of placing a flash bulb on the back of your hand above the holster and draw quick enough for the ball to drop into the holster with most forward cant holsters. I see this as especialy important for civilian carry as we cannot draw until we're in imminent danger which could put the BG very close or on top of us. A rearward, defensive draw could be vital in keeping the gun out of BG's hands and allowing its use.
It is always going to be a matter of compromise, as in those who carry their guy canted just for the purpose of not having to put up with the muzzle of the gun being pushed on by the car seat. They just have to accept the idea that they will have to wear the holster in canted position and make the best of it with a lot of practice to overcome the negative influence of the cant.
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Old January 1, 2013, 04:16 PM   #33
MLeake
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With regard to treg's post, I don't care what holster type I use. Some things hold constant:

1) each type of carry has vulnerabilities for grab defense. For instance, the rear cant he likes makes a snatch from behind much easier than from a straight drop, and a rear snatch is easier from a straight drop than from a forward cant. The user should familiarize himself with the vulnerabilities of whatever system he uses - and for many of us, there are multiple potential systems.

2) if I rely on draw speed to resolve the issue, and not on movement, then I am probably more likely to get stabbed, sliced, struck, or shot. I train to draw while moving. Movement options include forward or rear diagonals, pivots, parries and redirects, and/or physical engagement - plus draw as appropriate.

3) some carry types have other restrictions. Pocket carry is not friendly to seated draws. Then again, neither is treg's rearward cant. See comments in 1) above.
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Old January 1, 2013, 07:20 PM   #34
dahermit
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some carry types have other restrictions. Pocket carry is not friendly to seated draws.
I agree. But relative to compromise, I am shaped like a "V", no butt or hips, so unless I wear an excessively tight belt, my belt, and pants would migrate down around my ankles. For range use, I can get away with a belt holster for an hour or so, (with frequent up-pulls and I am constructing a Sam Browne belt w/shoulder strap to help with that), but for concealed carry it is not possible either IWB or OWB. I am stuck pretty much with pocket carry and suspenders. That is a compromise I must make. Seated I do not worry too much...the only scenario (I am retired, hardly ever sit in public), I can conceive of is someone desperate enough to try to hijack my Chevy Colorado pick-up, which is somewhat unlikely. Walking across parking lots to Walmart and being intercepted is more likely. A lot of the times, when traversing parking lots, I stuff both hands into my pockets as if I am cold; but have my right hand on my S&W 36 Snubbie, ready to go. So, it is a compromise, but not a very significant one. In all, pocket carry accommodates my body shape and my life-style.
Quote:
2) if I rely on draw speed to resolve the issue, and not on movement, then I am probably more likely to get stabbed, sliced, struck, or shot. I train to draw while moving. Movement options include forward or rear diagonals, pivots, parries and redirects, and/or physical engagement - plus draw as appropriate.
I see that logic in that. But again, a healthy person could do that, and I may be able to do that after my January 22 aortic valve replacement and 3 by-passes. But until then, such dancing would leave me exhausted and with chest pains. With such physical problems, I cannot do much dancing around...another compromise specific to my personal condition. I compensate by being very aware of, and maintaining awareness of the physical position of all the people in my vicinity.
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Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?

Last edited by dahermit; January 1, 2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Old January 1, 2013, 08:15 PM   #35
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+1 to what Bob Wright said/says.

i do leather work as a hobby and make holsters/gunbelts, etc.

Personally, I make my holsters for myself for CCW for carrying on the belt. I carry between 3 and 4 o'clock on my right side (strong side) and I make the holster so that it is canted forward - I make the belt loop so that it is tight on the belt (I wear a 1 1/2" belt) and there is no movement in the holster when the pistol is drawn. Normally, I carry a Ruger LCR and in that position, it is very comfortable for me - both when I am upright and when sitting such as in a car, etc. I'm 60 and like many, have some aches and pains - canted forward, it's a more natural "sweep" to draw and not have to worry about drawing straight up.

Personally, I don't feel there is a "right or wrong" way as far as holster position - it's what works best for the individual. I've made holsters for some friends who carry as well - one of the guys prefers to wear a "cross draw" on the belt (he's right handed) so the holster is canted in the opposite direction. I made one for a fellow who rides motorcycles quite a bit - he's right handed and likes to wear his carry piece (snobby) on the belt but in the middle of his back, usually under a jacket or shirt with the tail out. I made a left hand holster for him with a reverse cant to it so he can just reach back with his right hand and it's an easier raw for him instead of having to pull it straight up. Again, it all depends on how you carry and what works best for you.
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Old January 1, 2013, 09:09 PM   #36
MLeake
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My dad has poor range of motion in his right shoulder. For him, crossdraw works best.
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Old January 2, 2013, 11:27 AM   #37
dahermit
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Personally, I don't feel there is a "right or wrong" way as far as holster position - it's what works best for the individual. I've made holsters for some friends who carry as well - one of the guys prefers to wear a "cross draw" on the belt (he's right handed) so the holster is canted in the opposite direction. I made one for a fellow who rides motorcycles quite a bit - he's right handed and likes to wear his carry piece (snobby) on the belt but in the middle of his back, usually under a jacket or shirt with the tail out. I made a left hand holster for him with a reverse cant to it so he can just reach back with his right hand and it's an easier raw for him instead of having to pull it straight up. Again, it all depends on how you carry and what works best for you.
Agree. There seems to be frequent physical factors that have to be considered which lead to compromise. I saw a picture once where a thin young woman wore a holster OWB in the middle of her back. Being young and thin, she could access the gun with either hand easily resulting in a good choice for her. We old, stiff and overweight guys could not reach a gun there with either hand. So, it would be ill-advised for such as us to mount a gun there, with its only access being when we are seated on a toilet. And then of course, in would be easy to access, on the floor in front of us.
The holsters I make for myself are only worn for a short time, only used for fast-draw practice (Bill Jordan Border Patrol style with an integral steel insert). That is their only purpose and at this time, I do not need anymore for myself. The holsters I make as a hobby will have to appeal to other people, so I have been investigating the hows and whys of the various designs and the input here has been pretty good.
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Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?

Last edited by dahermit; January 2, 2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old January 2, 2013, 02:36 PM   #38
Constantine
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I always carry at a cant when I'm concealed. Even OWB. I carry only fullsized. With my smallest gun being a Glock 19.

4:00 while driving is just easier that way too and I draw faster at a cant. Or so I think.
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