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Old December 29, 2012, 12:01 PM   #1
Ziggidy
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Still doing my homework....but

Hello,

I am doing allot of homework and have narrowed down some of the features I am looking for; actually 2. I want a 9mm and a smaller sized / compact....but that is where I have stopped.

I thought I narrowed it down to brands, either a gloc or xdm but am not sure any more. In one thread I read that there is no real safety on either and not sure if I want that option left out. On thread mentioned about the "potential" of a discharge while holstering the XD because of the handle feature and that may concern me. What are your thoughts about that thought?

This created a stumbling block for me because I have read allot of good things about the Xdm and it seemed right up my alley. I have small hands and the the reports I read and videos I watched, it seemed like the right place to start when I rent/shoot one at the range. Yes, I have yet to hold any gun, but was trying to narrow it down a bit.

My next question is this, are there any similar "quality" handguns that has quality of the gloc or Xdm that has a safety lock on it? To be honest, I am not sure why this seems important to me.

I have read allot of good about the Ruger, but also read some not so good. I have read the same for S&W and a few others.

Am I reading too much? Thinking too much?

Thanks!
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Old December 29, 2012, 03:51 PM   #2
wbw
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I have a full size XDm that I've had for several years now with zero problems. I would recommend them. I'm not sure what would cause a discharge when holstering. Keep your finger off the trigger.

Don't know anything about Glocks.

I also have a Ruger SR9c for carrying, when I can. It is a striker fired pistol with a safety. It comes with a small mag for carrying and a larger one for range use (or carrying if you want). Love mine and would recommend it also.

Here is the SR9c with extra mag:
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Old December 29, 2012, 10:26 PM   #3
TailGator
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Neither a Glock nor an XD nor any other modern well-made firearm will fire unless you pull the trigger. If you are afraid of accidentally pulling the trigger, you need some training and/or practice to help you gain confidence in your own abilities to handle the pistol.

There are several brands of pistols that can be had with thumb safeties, if that is what you decide you want. I am particularly fond of the Beretta lineup, because I think they provide very high quality with a moderate price, but others will chime in with their favorites as well. Beretta makes the 92 and its variants if you want a pistol for home defense and the range. For carry the PX4 lineup, especially the compact version, deserves a look. Both have thumb safeties and a DA/SA trigger in their most common configurations. The latter has a rotating barrel design that tames recoil significantly.

I am one of thousands have carried a Glock for several years without incident. My Beretta 92FS is a much more elegant and refined pistol, beautiful in both aesthetics and function, but both are well-made, reliable pistols, and I trust them both.
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Old December 29, 2012, 11:21 PM   #4
pjcforpres2020
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When you say you have yet to hold any gun, do you mean you have never held or shot a gun? Or simply yet to hold or shoot any of the ones you mentioned?

Based on some of what you have said and asked, I would highly suggest taking a handgun course or going out with an experienced shooter that can bring a long a couple different ones for you to try out, get some good guidance, and experience with.

Simply put, I would say yes, you are reading and thinking way too much, and just need to get out and shoot some of these guns. You will quickly find which ones you like/have a much better idea of what matters to you more so than a youtube video or some random person's opinion on a forum.

As for the guns you mentioned, they are all excellent. I am a big fan of XDms myself, really like the way they feel in my hand and the way they shoot. Glocks are great guns, as well, very durable, reliable guns (I am not a big fan of the way they fit my hands, but others believe they are perfect). Both are very safe to carry, even though neither one has a traditional safety, they both have safety mechanisms (Glock has their trigger safety, XDm has both the trigger and the grip safety).

I will stress this big time, though. From the sounds of it, you are a long ways from being in a position to even think about carrying, and should spend your time focused on learning how to safely handle a gun, shoot it proficiently, and build the skills needed to safely and competently carry.
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Old December 30, 2012, 08:55 PM   #5
thinktwice
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Read pjcforpres2020's post twice, or more if you have to. He gave you the best advice you can get, and I will second his post. You will really be glad you did and so will others. Good Luck....
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Old December 30, 2012, 09:34 PM   #6
chris in va
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Quote:
Neither a Glock nor an XD nor any other modern well-made firearm will fire unless you pull the trigger
Actually, the XD requires the grip safety to be depressed first.
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Old January 1, 2013, 11:06 PM   #7
Mosin44az
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Seconding Chris in Va, the XD and XDm series have a slight safety advantage over the Glocks because of the grip safety. Less likely to go off just from something contacting the trigger. I consider the XDs to be safe in softer fanny packs and other modes of carry as a result of this feature also. Glocks you need a holster that is hard-sided on BOTH sides of the trigger area.

But if you are holstering either gun with your finger ON the trigger, you are in big trouble....

I also second the advice to take a safety course FIRST.
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Old January 5, 2013, 12:12 AM   #8
imacpc1
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The Darth Vader of Handguns

The Beretta PX4 Compact (not sub-compact) is the Darth Vader of Handguns. First, its wicked nasty looking. Second, its as formidable and dangerous as its looks. Third, its deadly reliable and accurate. This is a serious combat weapon engineered for serious combat. It 's rotary barrel design substantially reduces felt recoil, giving you a greater chance of staying on target and re-aquiring the target in a high stress situation. It is full featured with dual thumb safeties that also function as de-cockers, single/double action firing modes, easily activated thumb cocker, dual slide releases and 15 round standard magazines. An ergonomic grip with a short length to trigger aids natural pointing and straight smooth trigger pulls. The weighted slide supports holding the barrel nose down during high stress firing. The overall design of this weapon is to give you every advantage. The quality is un-surpassed. Bruniton finish, thick polymer rails, deep set steel inserts, thick locking block, steel guide rod with dual springs. These weapons have field and torture tested to over 150,000 rounds without major parts wear or failure. It will go tit for tat with anything on the market. At $500, you can buy a more expensive weapon, but not a better one. Good Luck!
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Old January 5, 2013, 02:36 AM   #9
CWKahrFan
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The S&W M&P Shield is a great choice for an all-around carry with a safety for someone with smaller hands. Single-stack 9's in general are great (thin!) and there are MANY choices now. Biggest problem with a Shield may be in FINDING one... They don't stay on the shelf more than 5 minutes.

Here's a nice video which nicely shows the thinness difference between single-stack and double-stack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu9GB35lQcU
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Old January 5, 2013, 03:47 AM   #10
Redhawk5.5+P+
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Quote:
Am I reading too much?
No, but you might be reading to much opinionated misinformation.

The safety starts with you, and your finger off the trigger IMHO.
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Old January 5, 2013, 07:28 AM   #11
foxytwo
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Both guns are safe if correct care in handling is taken. There have been trained people that have shot themselves reholstering a Glock by getting a peice of clothing or a leather strap from the holster getting in the trigger guard when reholstering. I have a XD and I put my thumb on the back of the slide, not pressing the grip safety. I can not look down due to a neck injury and the trigger can not get pressed unless the grip safety is pressed. No matter what firearm you use the main safety feature is between your ears. Get the gun that feels good in your hand and the one that you shoot the best.
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Old January 5, 2013, 11:55 AM   #12
timn8er
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Lots of good advice here. Something else you might consider trying
is checking with your local ranges to see if they rent the models
you are considering & finding out what works best for you. I did that
when choosing my carry gun & it really helped me come to a decision.
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Old January 5, 2013, 12:27 PM   #13
RBid
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The word "safety" is dangerous. Many people hear it, and automatically assign belief in the firearm's true level of safe operation, based on inclusion or exclusion of an active safety. That you are more safe with a firearm that has a safety is mostly incorrect.

Modern firearms do not discharge without pulling the trigger.

Working for a dealer, I see a LOT of people come in who are looking for a safety, without any thought given to it. This is generally because they fear that the firearm will "just go off", or as a means of keeping their kids from accidental harm (!!!). In either case, the implication is that they are giving the firearm more responsibility than it should have.

Safety is found in our behaviors. Mechanical safeties are, at best, a supplement to good behaviors. In this context, they are fine.

Of the active safety options out there, the backstrap/beaver tail safety is the best, in my opinion. You don't have to worry about forgetting to switch it off, so there really is no trade off in having one. With thumb safeties (like my Ruger's), you really have to practice sweeping them every time you draw, even if you try to carry with it off-- just in case.
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Old January 5, 2013, 12:51 PM   #14
Misssissippi Dave
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CZ pistols are just one more brand to take a look at. As mentioned all modern pistols have built in safeties. Some have more than others do. Probably a good way to get started is to find a range that rents pistols. One that also has instructors is even better. It is always better to get instruction when you are going to use a dangerous machine. A person can learn to drive a car by trial and error. They can do it faster and safer with an instructor. The same goes for guns. I believe self taught drivers are more dangerous to them and others just as self taught shooters are.

Renting pistols might seem expensive. It will let you know what you like and don't like fairly quickly. You won't take a beating trying to sell a new pistol you only shot one time to get something else that you might not like as well. This could go on for a while until you find something that just works for you. To be honest, buying a pistol generally is the cheap part. Paying range fees and buying ammo is where you normally spend more. Reloading tends to reduce the cost of ammo, but you wind up shooting more. You still spend a lot more on ammo than you do the pistol over its life time.

I do suggest renting a few pistols and instruction from either an experienced shooter or better yet an instructor prior to purchasing a pistol. I highly suggest you take a class for concealed carry before you consider going that route. Not all states require taking a class before you can get a license to carry. One last thing to think about. The smaller the pistol is the more difficult it is to shoot accurately. Pistols with a longer distance between the front and rear sight will be easier to stay on target with. Heavier pistols tend to reduce the amount of recoil a shooter feels too. Heavy pistols are a pain to carry all day long compared to smaller lighter pistols.
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Old January 5, 2013, 01:08 PM   #15
RC20
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The striker fired guns without a true safety are dangerous regardless of what all the striker crows says (be that XD, glock or S&W (the MP does offer a safety that negates the issue.)

It is NOT the fact that you had your finger on the trigger, its the fact that the trigger gets CAUGHT and due to the low amount of resistance in the strikers, the gun then goes off.

XD negates that a bit with the grip safety and supposedly the little interlock thinnyg on the trigger on XD, glock and S&W makes that less likely.

Less is safety is not more safety.

As Lenin put it, a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. You might want to look into the fact that it was glock propaganda that started this whole thing and if there ever was a conflict of interest in a contention, that is it. Anyone want to trust Leamnon Brothers with their money?

A DA/SA pistol may or may not have a safety, but to get the trigger to travel full length and fire requires something around 10-12 lbs of force (officially, it seem to be more 11-12 in actually)

That worked well for revolvers and continues to do so with the DA/SA (HK also offers a 1911 type safety on their P30 (not sure on others) if you want to go that extra mile.

Barrett has a safety on it though its the UP type to fire and you need to practice that as its a bit unintuitive.

The lack of a hard pull is why so many glock legs shootings have occurred.

IT also means you have to have them in a holster as they should not be carried concealed non holster.

The reality is that no one is 100% safe, we all make mistakes and the strikers are less safe as they have less latitude.

What was a feature for military use (glock) was then spun into a PR campaign that tried to overcome it with propaganda (and succeeded).
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Old January 5, 2013, 01:12 PM   #16
RC20
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Good luck indeed when someone uses the term Darth Vader when talking about a gun. If I knew this person was in my vicinity I would leave as fast as I could.

Its a fine example of propaganda and wrong technical mechanism operation information as the compact DOES NOT have the rotating barrel lock. It has the standard tilt and lock system.



Quote:
The Beretta PX4 Compact (not sub-compact) is the Darth Vader of Handguns. First, its wicked nasty looking. Second, its as formidable and dangerous as its looks. Third, its deadly reliable and accurate. This is a serious combat weapon engineered for serious combat. It 's rotary barrel design substantially reduces felt recoil, giving you a greater chance of staying on target and re-aquiring the target in a high stress situation. It is full featured with dual thumb safeties that also function as de-cockers, single/double action firing modes, easily activated thumb cocker, dual slide releases and 15 round standard magazines. An ergonomic grip with a short length to trigger aids natural pointing and straight smooth trigger pulls. The weighted slide supports holding the barrel nose down during high stress firing. The overall design of this weapon is to give you every advantage. The quality is un-surpassed. Bruniton finish, thick polymer rails, deep set steel inserts, thick locking block, steel guide rod with dual springs. These weapons have field and torture tested to over 150,000 rounds without major parts wear or failure. It will go tit for tat with anything on the market. At $500, you can buy a more expensive weapon, but not a better one. Good Luck!
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Old January 5, 2013, 04:22 PM   #17
imacpc1
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Darth Vader of Handguns

There are three current models of the PX4, size-wise. Full, Compact and Sub-Compact. The Full and Compact models have the rotary barrel design. The Sub-Compact has the standard tilt up lock up system.
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