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Old December 27, 2012, 10:48 PM   #26
WVsig
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For me in the trigger department there is no comparison. Even if you send the CZ out for a trigger job it is not going to have the same straight back clean pull of a 1911, even a $600 production 1911.

The STI is a good gun but it is basically a Armscor frame and slide assembled with a few STI parts on a separate line in the Philippines. I personally do not like their styling and the billboard on them but if you like their look they are solid performers. The quote that is posted about them getting final QC in the US is IMHO overstating what really happens. Not every guns is inspected by STI in TX. They are batch QC'd and then batch blessed.



The CZ has some advantages over a 1911 in 9mm. Capacity and the ability to carry it DA/SA but it is a different animal entirely when it comes to the trigger. Every single CZ will present some amount of camming in the trigger pull. Some are worse than others. Most of the camming action can be removed but even with trigger work from people like CZ customs or Cajun Gun Works it will still be there. It is inherent in the design. This does not make the CZ a bad gun. It is in fact a great gun but it is not without its issues.
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Last edited by WVsig; December 27, 2012 at 11:03 PM.
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Old December 27, 2012, 11:01 PM   #27
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apples to apples, not volkswagons..

the only way you can compare the 2 is a 1911 is single action..the Cz should be single action as well..
then both would have a short trigger..

a smith tuned 85 combat single action, compared to a series 70 1911.. as both have no firing pin block..

well the comparison is harder than you would believe..
both are clean and crisp..and have short resets..
a slight amount of camming in the cz..

yes a cz can have a very good trigger..(but usually not stock)

but in stock trim with a d/a,s/a trigger on the cz, vs a 1911, I'll take the 1911..as an equal comparison..s/a to s/a..
I like them both..
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Old December 27, 2012, 11:08 PM   #28
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wvsig, I think I know what you're talking about with regard to the trigger. I do very much like it on my RIA 1911, and with all the talk about triggers around here, I never knew what all the fuss was about until I shot one. Granted, it's only a .22, but it is a genuine 1911 frame .22.

I do not mind the look of the STI. The only concern I had looking at it were that the sights don't look like something that would work in a concealed carry and might snag on things, so they'd have to get replaced with some novak 3-dot sights.
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Old December 27, 2012, 11:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
well the comparison is harder than you would believe..
both are clean and crisp..and have short resets..
a slight amount of camming in the cz..
The straight back pull of the 1911 will win every time if you are judging the 2 on trigger pull alone. Even a finely tuned CZ will not beat a production 1911 like the STI and getting it to that point will cost you more than the OPs budget.
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Old December 27, 2012, 11:13 PM   #30
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I do not mind the look of the STI. The only concern I had looking at it were that the sights don't look like something that would work in a concealed carry and might snag on things, so they'd have to get replaced with some novak 3-dot sights.
They are competition sights because that is what the STI Spartan was designed for. It is a poor mans gun games pistol. You cannot swap the sights out easily due to the sight cut in the slide. It is LPA cut. There are good sights that fit that cut.... I recommend Harrison.

http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/rear-...tritium-models
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Old December 28, 2012, 12:03 AM   #31
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the Cz should be single action as well..
then both would have a short trigger..
They make a SA version - its not any better, it has the same so-so trigger.
It didnt take me too long to sell mine.
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Old December 28, 2012, 12:10 AM   #32
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wvsig, those sights are pretty nice. Anything for the front?

If I get one, I'd probably end up replacing the sights if I decide to carry it. I'm still not sure if I don't want one that has smoother sights from the start though. So many choices...
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Old December 28, 2012, 10:01 AM   #33
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the front sight cut is pretty standard. you shouldn't have a problem replacing it with one that matches the rear wvsig showed you. you definitely get more when you spend over $1000 on a 1911. if that wasn't true, i wouldn't own any. i'm just saying i didn't gain anything performance-wise with my higher dollar 1911's. yes the sti is a little gaudy in my opinion, but for a shooter it's fine. it's a BARGAIN at $600. the closest 1911 i have price-wise is the colt defender, but you can't really compare a 3in with a 5in. the next closest i have is the colt gold cup. performance-wise, the spartan v holds just as accurate out to 10yds as the gold cup. i've never shot either at 25yds, but i would imagine it would hold up as well as i know my custom build does at that distance. it FAR outperforms my kimber grand raptor (sold) at any distance.

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Old December 28, 2012, 10:46 AM   #34
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They make a SA version - its not any better, it has the same so-so trigger.
It didnt take me too long to sell mine.

I'm sure it didn't take long to sell as they are very sought after pistols, and with very little trigger work, or a break in period with dry firing are stellar pistols for target use or anything else you'd want a pistol to do.
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Old December 28, 2012, 02:05 PM   #35
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I detail stripped it, polished some parts and used a fine diamond hone on the hammer and sear to knock down the rough machining... The improvement was worth the effort, but still far short of a 1911.
No amount of dry firing or actual firing improved it further.
I thought about replacing the hammer with the competition version, however it came out of the factory with far too much slop with the safety on - the hammer would rock back too much/far with the safety on and pressure on the trigger.
That sealed it for me, I didnt think it would be safe as-is with the competition hammer installed.

For me CZ's and 1911's are on opposite sides.
One I'd unquestionably trust for defense but find barely tolerable at the range.
The other I really enjoy shooting but wouldnt typically rely on it for defense.
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Old December 28, 2012, 03:06 PM   #36
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[QUOTE] For me in the trigger department there is no comparison. Even if you send the CZ out for a trigger job it is not going to have the same straight back clean pull of a 1911, even a $600 production 1911.

... I personally do not like their styling and the billboard on them but if you like their look they are solid performers. [QUOTE]

Very true. The best CZ trigger will never measure up to a decent 1911 trigger but the CZ pistol does offer other advantages. I own models of both pistols and like them both. But they fill different roles for me.

I, too, despise the looks of "billboard" lettering on any firearm. I've never understood the reasoning for it, other than some people apparently do prefer the garish script. Each to their own.
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Old December 28, 2012, 03:25 PM   #37
Walt Sherrill
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I've had a number of gunsmith-tuned CZs, and several semi-custom 1911s.

It's a very uncommon non-1911 that can offer a trigger that is quite as crisp or clean as a 1911, but one of my CZs (a 75B SA) almost did that, and a custom AT-84s that I still shoot is also very close. As is an older T-series BHP I've had for a while (with magazine break removed.)

I have several SA SIGs (a P220 Super Match, and a P226 X-FIVE Competition) and a Gray Guns-tuned DA/SA P228 that have excellent triggers. I once had a factory-stock P210-6 that had a trigger that seemed just as clean and crisp as a well-tuned 1911.

I would argue that after you reach a certain modest level of refinement, a FINE trigger is mostly good for BRAGGING RIGHTS, but doesn't really help the shooter improve his/her (or the gun's) practical performance.

A great 1911 trigger is a joy to experience, but a good CZ trigger is also a good, albeit different experience. Let's not make too big a thing out of either type of experience.
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Old December 28, 2012, 04:40 PM   #38
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Let's not make too big a thing out of either type of experience.
Unless you're a serious Bullseye competitor trying to squeeze a round off with one hand, @ fifty yards in a gusty wind. That's when a superior sa trigger pull can make a big difference.
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Old December 28, 2012, 05:02 PM   #39
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There is a lot of rubbish on this forum when it comes to triggers. If you want the handgun for protection the trigger is fine on the CZ. Its a service pistol not a target pistol. If the bullets are flying your direction than it wouldn't matter if the trigger was 20 lbs or 4lbs you won't notice the difference.
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Old December 28, 2012, 06:42 PM   #40
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Unless you're a serious Bullseye competitor trying to squeeze a round off with one hand, @ fifty yards in a gusty wind. That's when a superior sa trigger pull can make a big difference.
In that situation -- and I'm sure a FINE trigger would help -- I suspect that good eyesight, steely nerves, a steady hand/no caffeine in his or her system, breath control, and a lot of experience shooting bullseye would be even more important. (With all of those things and only a "good" trigger, the shooter would probably do pretty well.)

The best shooters I've known seem to do pretty well no matter what gun they're using...
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Old December 29, 2012, 01:33 PM   #41
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The best shooters I've known seem to do pretty well no matter what gun they're using...
True to a point. But the serious shooters (a few of them whom I would catagorize as "best") I shoot with in Bullseye matches invariably opt for the most accurate pistol they can afford to compete with; both in terms of its intrinsic accuracy and a configuration and features that enhance the shooter's skill level. And that includes getting the best trigger possible. When shooters reach a certain plateau in excellence, the little things start becoming bigger and, if they plan on visiting the winner's circle with some degree of regularity, those "little" things (a mediocre trigger pull as opposed to a "fine" one for example) need to be addressed.
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Old December 29, 2012, 02:34 PM   #42
Walt Sherrill
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True to a point. But the serious shooters (a few of them whom I would catagorize as "best") I shoot with in Bullseye matches invariably opt for the most accurate pistol they can afford to compete with; both in terms of its intrinsic accuracy and a configuration and features that enhance the shooter's skill level.
We don't really disagree on this point -- we're just emphasizing different aspects of one part of the shooting experience.

My point is simply that for most of us mortals, a super-fine trigger isn't going to make that much difference, while a crappy one will. You never claimed otherwise.

For those of us that aren't among the very best Bullseye shooters, spending money on a high level of trigger refinement is probably money wasted rather than money well spent. For the super-stars of the sport (as is arguably the case in any sport), it probably DOES make a difference.
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Old December 29, 2012, 04:24 PM   #43
Dashunde
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spending money on a high level of trigger refinement is probably money wasted rather than money well spent.
The results on the target are not the only way to quantify whether or not a trigger job is worth the effort/cost. There is also the simple feel of it, the tactile satisfaction of pulling a nice trigger is enough for me most of the time.

But no, I wouldn't spend much if any, on a CZ trigger because it increases the price into that of a STI, PPQ or one of the many others that are good right out of the box.
Some folks do think the CZ's are worthy of the extra $... more power to them, its not a bad call either way.
When/if CZ ever puts their Omega triggers in all of their pistols I might end up with more than one
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Old December 29, 2012, 04:45 PM   #44
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Between the cz and the RIA 1911.. CZ All the way.

Now if it was a STI Spartan vs. Cz75 I'd go with the Spartan.


Ike

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Old December 29, 2012, 05:57 PM   #45
Walt Sherrill
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Originally Posted by Dashunde
... The results on the target are not the only way to quantify whether or not a trigger job is worth the effort/cost. There is also the simple feel of it, the tactile satisfaction of pulling a nice trigger is enough for me most of the time.
If results on target aren't the shooter's primary concern, then you've simply written, in a different way, what I wrote earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill
I would argue that after you reach a certain modest level of refinement, a FINE trigger is mostly good for BRAGGING RIGHTS, but doesn't really help the shooter improve his/her (or the gun's) practical performance.
We, in effect, agree.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; December 29, 2012 at 07:12 PM.
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Old December 29, 2012, 08:08 PM   #46
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by BigTex308 View Post
Between the cz and the RIA 1911.. CZ All the way.

Now if it was a STI Spartan vs. Cz75 I'd go with the Spartan.


Ike

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This pretty much has turned into cz-75 vs STI Spartan, and I am pretty set on the Spartan...

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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Old December 29, 2012, 09:00 PM   #47
Dashunde
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^ Good to hear

Walt, perhaps we are on the same page.
I place trigger quality high on the priority list, its the link between me and the gun.
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Old December 29, 2012, 10:54 PM   #48
XtremeRevolution
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I will admit I very much like the trigger of my RIA 1911. If anything, having a consistent trigger will be valuable to me.

Now, I just need to find an affordable Spartan. So far, I'm seeing them go for $620-$650 shipped. Does anyone know a place that has one any cheaper?
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:28 AM   #49
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Actually there are cz pistols that have good triggers like a 1911. I have a 75 sa and a sp-01 shadow that are. The 75sa is set up with a straight adjustable trigger, a competition hammer and the firing pin block is removed. The pull is about 3lbs. and has very minimal take up and reset. The shadow also has an xlnt trigger but has some take up single action bring that it is DA/SA. I had it single action only for a while and the pull was just like my 75sa, very clean pull with no hammer camming.
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Old December 31, 2012, 08:57 AM   #50
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I like CZ's alot!!

I've shot countless rds thru a few 75B's and have alway's liked their design and reliability since ~1992 or 94. But now i'm all polymer due to weight and having a neck full of disc issue's. My edc is a HK45c that i shoot very with 230gr GoldDot's. Vs one from another gun really goes into preference and what you shoot best. Me i left 1911's alone long ago. good luck...
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