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Old December 25, 2012, 12:55 AM   #1
ffs1942
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Accuracy of Winchester vs SKS vs Ruger Mini vs Kel Tec SU16?

I was thinking of getting a nice Hartford made Winchester 94 while I can. Then the Obama regime showed its true colors and use the latest school shooting as its Reichstag.

I can't afford a decent AR and the 5.56 caliber is pretty limited in utility. I do have a lot of M16 mags though. The SU16 and Mini 14 are 5.56.

The 7.62x39 has many advantages in terms of sporting use and cost of ammo, if that's not banned. The SKS also seems rather cool, especially the Yugo one with all the bells and whistles.

The Winchester lies low on the commies' radar, is quickly reloaded on the fly, a legendary deer gun and Old West cool. Cheap 30-30 surplus ammo is non existant though.

I really don't plan to shoot the chosen gun a lot. I want the Winchester as a companion to my 9422 and Colt SAA's. I want an "assault weapon" because the demon-rats say I can't be trusted with one or I don't need one.

My concern is about the accuracy of these rifles. I've heard the 94 has never been a long range rifle. Same with the SKS. I've heard the SU16 is very accurate and no nothing of the Mini 14 or mini 30.

How do these guns stack up accuracywise?
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Old December 25, 2012, 03:22 AM   #2
CAOxInfinity
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My SKS is at best a 4-5 moa rifle. Im sure there are better out there. Just my limited experience.

I've been extremely impressed with the SU16c. Its as accurate as any AR I've fired...1-1.5 moa, super light, and fun to shoot. Great optics mounting capability as well. Keltec really got it right with that one

Have no opinion on the others.
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Old December 25, 2012, 04:10 PM   #3
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You say you have alot of AR-15mags? If so get a mossberg mvp predator. It's a bolt action .223 that takes AR mags. I plan on getting one to compliment my AR. Same mags and same ammo.
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Old December 25, 2012, 08:56 PM   #4
big al hunter
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My win 94 in 30-30 is quite accurate. Better than I ever got with my sks. The gun is accurate but the 30-30 is not as flat shooting as 5.56 (think rainbow compared to laser beam). The 94 would be the perfect match to your SAA.
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Old December 25, 2012, 09:57 PM   #5
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Dunno what you mean by a "Hartford" Winchester, but the 94s can be very decently accurate.
I worked up one load for my wife's that held under an inch at 100 yards.
I can do 2-3 inches with factory sights on my '51 94 with factory loads.

Find something the gun prefers & go with it.
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Old December 25, 2012, 10:36 PM   #6
tahunua001
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the SKS' reputation suggests that it would be most reliable

the mini would be most accurate

the SU16 would allow you to use those AR15 magazines

the Winchester 94 would be the most versatile as a general purpose rifle.


you can pick your poison. I personally have never been a fan of Keltecs, the ergonomics were always just too wonky for my liking. the mini14 is a decent design but has it's drawbacks and right now are as hard to find as AR15s anyway. I have yet to fire my SKS but I will say that any gun chambered in 7.62x39 and 223/5.56mm are going to have a fuzzy future due to rumblings of a possible gun ban and possible ban on the importation of ammo, severely limiting the supply of cheap ammunition for both calibers.

the win 94 is the only one that really stands little or nothing to lose in the event of a ban on either manufacture of(moot as the 94 is not currently produced in quantity) or importation of ammo as most 30-30 is domestic production. I would take the winchester 94 or even a cheaper Marlin 336 in 30-30 over the other options but that's just me.
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Old December 25, 2012, 10:54 PM   #7
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The SU-16 is a good rifle for a niche role, which is being a light handy rifle that takes STANAG mags and fires 223.

I would pick one up just because someone didn't want me to have one.

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Old December 26, 2012, 09:00 PM   #8
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For pure utility the Winchester 94 would be my pick (although truth be told I'd buy a pre Remington Marlin 336 and put the money I saved into ammo). From an accuracy standpoint the Mini is probably going to be the most accurate of all of the rifles you listed. You should be aware that the Yugo SKS does not have a chrome lined bore, not a huge issue but it does tend to turn people away from the Yugo. I own a Mini-14 and a Yugo SKS and they are both pretty good shooters, my Yugo will shoot 3-4" @ 100 yds with factory iron sights and the Mini will shoot 1.5" @ 100 with handloads (I need to tweak that load a bit to get it down to 1") and a low power variable scope. I also own a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem and while not a .30 WCF it still shoots pretty well, 2-3" @ 100yds with a receiver peep sight. The .30 WCF would be a better choice than the .35 since ammo is available any where and is usually about $10 less per box but I really wanted a .35.


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Old December 26, 2012, 09:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
My concern is about the accuracy of these rifles. I've heard the 94 has never been a long range rifle. Same with the SKS. I've heard the SU16 is very accurate and no nothing of the Mini 14 or mini 30.
Winchesters Model 94s are a special rifle. Lots of folks, including myself, like them, but accuracy is a hit or miss proposition, especially with the older guns, not because they're poorly made, but because some folks abused them in the past either through carelessness or callousness. I've seen Win94s with oval muzzles, simply because folks cleaned them improperly and wore the rifling out of the muzzle with steel rods. I've also seen Win94s that were left to sit in closets and the bore was full of dirt-dauber nests. That ain't good for the rifling.

I currently have two Win94s. One is an extremely accurate cast-bullet rifle, the other is a so-so rifle that doesn't shoot anything especially well. They're both post-64 examples. With a Winchester 94, the devil is in the details.
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:52 AM   #10
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I understand the desire to "stick it" to the anti's by buying an AR/AK/SKS type, but I think you might be a little too late on that. Almost everywhere seems to be virtually sold out of semi-auto center-fire rifles, and .223 and 7.62x39 ammo has also dwindled in the past couple weeks to almost nil readily available.

I should know. I just got a Yugo SKS on trade about two weeks ago and wish I had bought more ammo when I had the chance. I bought 40 rounds of Tula to function check the rifle a couple days after I bought it. Just a week later after having gone through all 40 rounds, the local Sportsman's warehouse went from having two entire bookcase size shelves completely full of 7.62x39 ammo to NONE. There wasn't any .223 either, and it doesn't look like the panic buying is stopping in the immediate future. It will take at least a few months (and probably longer) for supplies of these rifles and ammo to reach their normal levels again (assuming no new legislation that directly affects this).

IMHO, if you want a good rifle now, look into those 30-30 lever actions (Winchester or Marlin). The rifles shouldn't be too hard to find and more importantly the ammo should still be readily available during the next couple months of insanity. Then you could save up for a good semi-auto once things settle down (if they ever do).
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Old December 27, 2012, 01:47 AM   #11
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I am actually starting to see signs of the panic market dieing down already. my LGS had a mini14 today when I walked in. still no ARs, no high cap magazines, and no scary ammo cartridges in bulk but the sight of a pseudo back rifle really kicked my spirits up a little bit. some of the pawn shops even have a few EBRs but they are asking NIB MSRP or more for most of them but that in itse;f suggests that since they are still on the shelves that people are not nearly as desperate as they were a week ago. this warms my heart, I bought an SKS a during all the hubbub just because it was at a reasonable price and hey...what the heck it's a new gun. they gave me one of the last boxes of ammo they had for it on the house even, today they have more of it in but no more than a case on the shelf at a time, and at normal prices. the fact that people are not clearing the shelves at first sight is a good sign as well.
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Old December 28, 2012, 04:11 AM   #12
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When evaluations or comparisons are made with a generic SKS, do most people not realize (or care about) the improved accuracy afforded by a
Tech Sight? Their website is simple to spot with two seconds of Google magic.

The Tech requires little money, no skill at all, and the original rear leaf sight can be re-installed. It only takes some muscle to push in on the internal spring, and pull back to remove the original leaf. A few minutes light hand-filing of the takedown lever's tiny dimple is easy.

You don't need Gandalf the Grey (Lord...Rings) or "iraqiveteran8888"'s channel to replace it, or to produce a nice cluster of holes almost touching each other at 50 yards.
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Old December 28, 2012, 07:18 AM   #13
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IMO...
Quote:
You say you have alot of AR-15mags? If so get a mossberg mvp predator. It's a bolt action .223 that takes AR mags.
best advice so far... I was looking at these myself

I'm partial to lever guns over the semi's anyway, so you are already too late to get ahead of the panic on the semi's, get a lever gun ( more likely to find ammo now as well ) the mention of the Marlin is not a bad idea, as the top of the reciever is solid, allows a longer sight radius for iron sights, or the easier mounting of a scope

that said... a couple comments... the newer mini's have been better on accuracy, but if you buy used, they were made for several years, that were actually poor in the accuracy dept.

but also most of these type rifles can be made at least reasonably accurate... I have an $89.00 Chinese SKS ( anyone remember those ) that has been accurized to where I can actually put 10 rounds on a 3" spot at 200 yards from the prone position...
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Old December 28, 2012, 09:05 AM   #14
Art Eatman
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The accuracy "problem" with a 94 or 336 has more to do with open buckhorn sights than with the actual capability. The range "problem" is more a function of trajectory, sights and shooter skill than of inherent capability.

My experience with Mini-14s, all early models, was that the first shot always went into Wily Coyote or Jack Rabbit, just as I expected. Three-shot groups from a cold barrel usually ran about 1.5 MOA.

Defense situation? If you need more than one or two mags, your problem is not a shortage of mags. It's a shortage of folks on your side of the argument.
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Old December 28, 2012, 10:01 PM   #15
mr.t7024
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Accuracy of Winchester vs SKS vs Ruger Mini vs Kel Tec SU16?

I have the Ruger Mini 14 - 580 series, I am impressed with its accuracy at 100 yards. Just my 2 cents! Cliff
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