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Old December 19, 2012, 03:47 PM   #1
WeedWacker
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Idaho legal definitionof school - campus carry related

I was having a discussion with a fellow student who claimed it was legal to carry concealed firearms on campus. Now I have done some reading and my understanding of legalese is foggy at best, but I can't seem to find a statute either prohibiting on specifically college campus or including college campus in the definition of "school" since there can be a difference and I need a watertight argument. Here's the site I've been using and the link to school and firearms:

From what I can gather out of the School definition it seems to apply to the education of minors, but anything I research on the web talks about bills to "legalize" campus carry.

I also remember some story about it being legal to carry as long as you weren't a student but the college could ask you to leave and invoke trespass law.

[frustration]
WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO COMPLICATED!?!?
[/frustration]
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Old December 19, 2012, 03:56 PM   #2
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Try the federal gun free school zone law. That should include college campuses with some restrictions. There are/were a number of challenges however, for example the guy living in campus housing being able to defend his home with his firearm...
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Old December 19, 2012, 04:40 PM   #3
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Then what about the campus laws in Colorado, Utah and such? Do the state laws supersede the federal laws in concealed carry?
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Old December 19, 2012, 04:44 PM   #4
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Yes and No. You REALLY want to get a local lawyer for this, but most laws have exceptions all over the place. Fully automatic weapons are illegal.... UNLESS...

You can have a free right (turn) on Red.. UNLESS...
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Old December 19, 2012, 04:48 PM   #5
tahunua001
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weedwacker, in statutes, paragraph 2 bullet (e)

Quote:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
as it is not a secondary(highschool) or elementary(1-8) then a college campus can not be considered a school under Idaho law and as part of Idaho law, with the exception of government buildings and schools(already defined), no sign that says 'no weapons allowed' carries the weight of law and since Idaho is an open carry state it is legal for students to carry both concealed(with permit) and non concealed firearms on campus. the campus may choose to have you evicted from the property as a trespasser however a student with active ID can not be considered a trespasser so regardless of how you want to look at it,
it is legal and nobody can stop you without facing a lawsuit.
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Old December 19, 2012, 09:19 PM   #6
WeedWacker
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Quote:
the campus may choose to have you evicted from the property as a trespasser however a student with active ID can not be considered a trespasser so regardless of how you want to look at it, it is legal and nobody can stop you without facing a lawsuit.
That's interesting. So what's all the hullabaloo the lawmakers are puffing about making concealed carry legal on campus?

A few links from 2011:

http://craigatkinsonlaw.com/uncatego...lege-campuses/

http://www.newsmax.com/JohnLott/idah...3/15/id/389520

http://www.newwest.net/topic/article...trend/C37/L37/

ETA: Maybe just laws to prohibit prohibition?
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Old December 20, 2012, 02:20 AM   #7
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I don't know about others, but when I went to SUU (Southern Utah University) they honored CCP. Furthermore, when Virginia Tech happened, they posted bulletins everywhere regarding their CCP policy--basically reinforcing the fact they uphold CCP holders rights to protection. It's been a few years (or a little more), but I think it's still the same there.
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Old December 20, 2012, 11:00 AM   #8
WeedWacker
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While I applaud Utah in using (what I consider) common sense, I'm still wondering what the status is in Idaho, as that affects me directly.

Or are you saying I should just transfer over to a Utah school?
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Old December 20, 2012, 11:23 AM   #9
Al Norris
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In 2008, the Idaho Legislature codified a very strong preemption statute.

Where Cities and Counties were preempted before this in another section of Idaho Codes, they are now consolidated and moved into Title 18 (Crimes and Punishment), Chapter 33 (Firearms, Explosives And Other Deadly Weapons). Specifically, Section 18-3302J (Preemption Of Firearms Regulation).

The area that deals with higher education (post primary and secondary schools) is paragraph 4(c):

Quote:
(4)... Ordinances adopted under this subsection may not apply to or affect:
(c)The authority of the board of regents of the university of Idaho, the boards of trustees of the state colleges and universities, the board of professional-technical education and the boards of trustees of each of the community colleges established under chapter 21, title 33, Idaho Code, to regulate in matters relating to firearms.
The contention of the Tribble case is that regulation cannot mean a complete ban. Specifically, this case attacks the ban on firearms possession in the home as it applies to separate married graduate housing.

The Board of Regents advanced several theories as to why they could ban all weapons at all times at all locations within their property.

The District Court sided with the Board of Regents on several of their theories. The case is on appeal before the Idaho Supreme Court. No date has been set to hear the case, as of yesterday.

The outcome of this case may or may not provide a vehicle to address carry on campus.
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Old December 20, 2012, 12:14 PM   #10
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Thanks, Al. I was thinking about the Tribble case throughout this whole thing but I remembered it was a matter of possession in the home rather than on carry on premises. In the Lewis-Clark State College Student Handbook we are intructed that the college prohibits firearms to a degree:

Student Handbook

Quote:
Firearms and Dangerous Weapons
BECAUSE OF THEIR RECOGNIZED DANGER, FIREARMS, ILLEGAL KNIVES, EXPLOSIVES,
CHEMICAL OR INCENDIARY DEVICES WILL NOT BE KEPT BY STUDENTS ON COLLEGEOWNED OR CONTROLLED PROPERTY IN STUDENT LIVING QUARTERS.
Possession of explosives, chemical or incendiary devices, loaded or unloaded firearms on campus, except
as expressly authorized by law or institutional policy, is prohibited. (The Lewiston City Code specifically
prohibits the discharge of any air rifle, pellet or BB gun within the city limits without obtaining a permit
from the Chief of Police.)
But again it mentions in student living quarters and makes exception for "expressly authorized by law"...
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Old December 21, 2012, 12:15 AM   #11
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Here is the links to the University of Idaho and its rules/regs/student conduct. Now if this applies to non students I am not sure. Hope this helps. You can look up any University/College rules/regs etc by going to that U/C web site.

University Of Idaho http://www.uidaho.edu/apm/35/35

H. Weapons and Explosives.

H-1. Firearms.

a. "Firearm" means any instrument used in the propulsion of shot, shell, or bullets, or other harmful objects by the action of gunpowder exploded within it, by the action of compressed air within it, by the power of springs and including what are commonly known as air rifles, BB guns, and pellet guns.

b. Firearms are prohibited on university property except in the following situations:

i) University Students are permitted to bring firearms onto university property only under the conditions set forth in the Student Code of Conduct, Article VI. [ed. 7-10]

ii) For persons residing in University of Idaho-operated housing, including Residence Halls and Apartments, firearm storage is available at the Police Campus Substation. Firearms must be unloaded, encased, and have a trigger lock attached or be otherwise rendered inoperable. Persons residing in University-operated housing who wish to store firearms at the Police Campus Substation should contact the Police Campus Substation at (208) 885-7074, for additional information. Firearms are not permitted in or around University-operated housing.

iii) Firearms may be brought onto campus for use in the Memorial Gym firing range in accordance with firing range rules. Firearms must be transported to the range unloaded, encased, with a trigger lock attached or otherwise rendered inoperable.

iv) Firearms carried by law enforcement personnel and on-duty armored transport personnel are allowed on campus.

v) The Director of Environmental Health and Safety may, in his or her discretion, grant written authorization for individuals to bring firearms on university property for specific events and purposes.

c. Holding a concealed weapons permit does not give an individual permission to bring a firearm onto university property.


http://www.webs.uidaho.edu/fsh/2300.html
STUDENT CODE OF CONDUCT

ARTICLE VI--PHYSICAL SAFETY AND WELFARE. [section renumbered 8-07]
9. Firearms also may endanger the safety of the university community when improperly handled. "Firearms" as used in the code means any instrument used in the propulsion of shot, shell, or bullets, or other harmful objects by the action of gunpowder exploded within it, by the action of compressed air within it, by the power of springs and including what are commonly known as air rifles, BB guns, and pellet guns.

10. No firearm may be brought onto campus unless it is encased and has a trigger lock attached. ("Encased" is defined as placing a gun with a trigger lock in some sort of container--hard or soft, and including, but not limited to, such materials as aluminum, plastic, wood, leather, and cloth--that is fastened by means of a snap lock, zipper, tie, etc.).

11. In UI residence halls firearms must be kept in an area authorized by the Housing Office.

12. Loaded guns are not permitted on campus. A "loaded gun" is defined as one containing live ammunition either in the chamber or in the magazine. Possession and storage of gunpowder must comply with federal, state, and municipal laws. No ammunition will be allowed on campus except that designated for firearms that are properly stored on campus.

13. Other explosive substances are also prohibited on campus, except as approved by the safety officer. Exceptions to the above may be made for supervised UI courses.

14. Unauthorized uses of dangerous projectile or explosive devices, including but not limited to sling shots, crossbows, catapults, and devices which cause dangerous chemical reactions, are violations of this code.
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Old December 21, 2012, 01:52 AM   #12
WeedWacker
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Thanks, Gary. While knowing the U of I code is good because I visit my younger sister in Moscow every so often, it doesn't apply quite so much to me down south here in Lewiston at the Lewis-Clark State College.
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Old December 23, 2012, 08:20 AM   #13
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They're looking at laws (like UT) that specifically AUTHORIZE carry on campus. Numerous states don't criminalize it, but students will be subject to administrative discipline(usually expulsion) if caught. There are VERY few colleges who do allow carry on campus.....
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