The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 20, 2012, 12:56 AM   #51
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
Quote:
It seems obvious to me, that real time tests that can gauge the approximate time of consumption are the only logical solution.
Don't rely on this. I do not think I believe this science. Someone who smokes a lot might have much more in their system(higher tolerance). Even if it has been days, that doesn't mean the test will show this. That is only one example of how it can end bad for you. I can think of others off the top of my head right off the bat which would show a distrust in relying on a prosecutor's or arresting officer's so-called test.
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 06:18 AM   #52
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,073
I don't really have a horse in the race, but I would imagine, that with states starting to decriminalize/legalize marijuana use it's only a matter of time until things wind up at SCOTUS and the federal law gets overturned.

In the mean time if you've had a rough week and need to relax, but don't want to compromise your 2nd amendment rights, stick to booze and/or whatever pills your doctor prescribes. It might be hypocritical, but it's the way things are.

Also, the form says "an unlawful user of...", so if you live in a state where it's legal, or use it medically, couldn't make an argument that you're not using it illegally? Or does the federal law supersede the state law?
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 08:46 AM   #53
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Or does the federal law supersede the state law?
Yes, Fed. law does supersede State law.

There are currently 18 States plus DC in which med. mj is legal by State law but still illegal per Fed. law.
See list here:
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000881

IMO, something being made State legal but still against Fed. law does nothing but set the grounds for 'bad mojo waiting to happen'....and if I don't miss my guess, there will be some bad things happen(Feds. busting State legal med. mj. institutes, etc.) out of the whole med. mj State versus Fed. law issue.

As things stand now, it's just bound to happen.

Guess it would make to much sense to either completely legalize it per State and Fed. law same as alcohol or make it totally illegal before the 'bad mojo' hits.
But that's our 'gubment' for ya.
shortwave is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 03:16 PM   #54
colbad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2012
Posts: 312
Regardless of what the State law is concerning marijuana, if you are a user you are prohibited federally from possessing firearms. Get caught with a firearm and medical marijuana card and go to prison as prohibited possessor.
colbad is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 05:02 PM   #55
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Okay another hypothetical. Say that the defendant can prove without a doubt that at the time of purchasing/filling out his 4473, he had never engaged in a federally controlled substance, yet since then he engaged in SD homicide and had smoked weed 2 weeks prior?

For instance a 50 year old man in Colorado bought an 870 in the 80s, yet since it was legalized in his state he tried it for the first time. Then a couple weeks later an intruder threatens his life and he reacts?

This scenario engages me moreso, because the contradictory laws hurt older people.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 06:52 PM   #56
colbad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2012
Posts: 312
If you are an illegal user of drugs as defined by federal law you are prohibited from possessing firearms/ammo period. Not being a drug user when you fill out the 4473 does not matter if you later become a user. At the time you become an illegal drug user you become a prohibited possessor. If you were a drug user and lied on the 4473 and it could be proven, that is a separate charge. Prohibited possessor status is all encompassing and is not limited to purchase. If you are a drug user and in a position to touch a firearm you may go to prison. Of course there is an argument as to how much drug use makes you a "user". One time use, probably not. Admitted daily use, defiantly.

Last edited by colbad; December 21, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
colbad is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 07:45 PM   #57
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Big Bird PhD
...Say that the defendant can prove without a doubt that at the time of purchasing/filling out his 4473, he had never engaged in a federally controlled substance, yet since then he engaged in SD homicide and had smoked weed 2 weeks prior?...
It may be that someone is not an unlawful user of a controlled substance when he buys a gun. At some later date, if he becomes an unlawful user of a controlled substance his continued possession of a gun, even if originally lawfully acquired, would be a crime under federal law. Whether someone is an unlawful user of a controlled substance depends on the exact circumstances and could finally be a question for a judge or jury.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 09:51 PM   #58
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 148
"Get caught with a firearm and medical marijuana card and go to prison as prohibited possessor."

Not hardly. Having a pot card does not in any way mean you are a current or past user of marijuana. We all probably know folks w/ driver's licenses who do not drive. I can own an entire shelf of books, but it doesn't mean I have read them, will ever read them or even know how to read!
__________________
It's not a big surprise to feel your temperature rise
You've gotta get your redline fever 'Cause there is just one cure that they know for sure You just become a heavy metal believer. \m/
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 10:07 PM   #59
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Metal 1
...Having a pot card does not in any way mean you are a current or past user of marijuana...
Perhaps. But if you have a medical marijuana card and a gun, the possession of the card will almost certainly be probable cause to get a warrant to search for evidence of current of recent use.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 10:13 PM   #60
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 148
^^^^I bet it would too.
__________________
It's not a big surprise to feel your temperature rise
You've gotta get your redline fever 'Cause there is just one cure that they know for sure You just become a heavy metal believer. \m/
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 10:16 PM   #61
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
A note of perception: I'm sure a lot of people born in the 50s or 60s are by definition felons. I know I have family members who engaged in mj back in the 70s yet haven't touched it since... My uncle owns a lot of guns.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 10:17 PM   #62
colbad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2012
Posts: 312
Your point is technically correct that the card and gun alone does not per say make you a prohibited possessor.....takes a couple more steps. However, a card and a gun = probable cause to get court order for "medical" records. It may take a little leg work but not rocket science to locate where a person bought their dope if using the card to purchase from "licensed" dealers. Once you have the record of their "prescription" being filled the case is made....especially if you have numerous fills.

To the other point. If you once used in the 1950's and quit you are no longer a "user" (distinction between use and user). "User" refers to an active user and is somewhat "fuzzy" as I mentioned above. How much current use makes you a "user" is part of making the case. Same as duration between use. All goes to the issue of evidence.

Last edited by colbad; December 21, 2012 at 11:04 PM.
colbad is offline  
Old December 21, 2012, 11:16 PM   #63
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,612
During Desert Storm Teledyne Corp developed very sophisticated means to measure for chemical agents on the battlefield.The technology was soon applied to drug testing.Your hair is measured,and contains any history of drug use.Shave your head,and fingernail shavings will work.
That works both ways,I suppose.A hair test could prove you are a non user,but then,if you were a weekend user for a year,then went a month with no pot,you would probably pass a blood or urine test,but your hair could prove you a user.
HiBC is offline  
Old December 22, 2012, 10:37 PM   #64
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,612
I'm going to poke a pin in the bubble of "what seems fair" and "what shoould be" and"but they aren't going to waste time on me,I'm small fish"

If you think about posessing a firearm as a prohibited person,then all the sudden "they" have something on you.

Oh,come on,HiBC!! Show me your tin foil hat collection!!.

Some of you younger folks may not have a sense of history.You may not be aware of how getting a bit afoul of the federal firearms laws can get post humorous.,Thats after it stops being funny.

Now,I am sure the mods won't want us to go off topic and start a discussion on these topics here.Just do your own research,and use it to take good care of yourself.Naivete can get you in trouble.

Us older folks know the story of a guy who messed up,broke the law.He cut off a shotgun barrel shorter than 18 inches at the request of federal agents.Then,when they had that on him,they asked him to become an informant.Research Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge.It is a good thing to know about.

There was also a cult leader about the same time period.A group called the Branch Davidians in Waco,Texas.They had a leader named David Koresh.As I understand it,among other problems they were selling and posessing inappropriate firearms outside the law.Serious stuff.It brought trouble.

Watch a video on Youtube called "Rules of Engagement".Its got Joe Biden in it.

Just know what can happen if you think breaking firearms laws just a little is something that will work out for you.
HiBC is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15884 seconds with 9 queries