The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 9, 2012, 05:29 PM   #1
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
How do I pick a 45-70?

Hi All....

I bought a new Marlin 336 XLR SS a year back in 30-30. I'm thinking a 45-70 might be a nice addition - if I find one from a private seller or in a pawn shop.

Are there preferred models, S/N ranges, barrel lengths, or other characteristics etc. that would help me know if I stumble into a good opportunity?

I'm looking for a shooter. A saddle gun is OK, but not preferred. I'd like the bnefits of a longer sight radius. Any hunting would likely be elk or larger.

Any advice on pricing would be appreciated, as I have no idea what a used gun would fetch. Advice on evaluating condition would sure be helpful!

Thanks, folks!
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 08:11 PM   #2
Chet Punisher
Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2012
Posts: 77
Have you been over to marlinowners.com? As the name implies there is a ton of guys over there that have a massive amount of knowledge about Marlins. They also have a great classified section.

I would choose a mid 1990-2000 1895 Guide Gun... They came in stainless and looked pretty awesome.

Good Luck.
__________________
My Blog: http://accurateshooting.blogspot.com/
Chet Punisher is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:31 PM   #3
Shotgun693
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 959
Then again you could shop around for a Rolling Block or Sharps. It depends on if you need a repeater or not?
Shotgun693 is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:37 PM   #4
Dr. A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2007
Location: Salina, KS.
Posts: 188
Marlinowners does have alot of info. If you know you want a longer barrel, get one. I started with a 22 inch, and have also gotten a CB, GS, a Buffalo Classic, and a Ruger #1. Some are scoped, some are target, and all used for hunting. (Especially hogs, elk and bison.). It is a reloaders cartridge, as it gets very expensive to shoot them as much as I like. I do like ballard rifling, which may be a little better for cast. Quality took a dive around the Remington aquisition of Marlin, but may be rising again. The short barreled GS i bought used for 500 last year and had a nice XS scope rail with a XS sight. I explored powerful high pressure loads, and found that although fun to explore their capability, a trap door load works fine to hunt and especially plink with. It is challenging to hit beyond 200 yards, but i have my CB and BC set up for up to 600 yards or so. The model determines price, with the 22 incher being the base model. Expect to pay the most for pre remington guns in unfired condition. CBs sometimes go for 800 and more. An sbl the same. A 22 incher should be 500 and up, and possibly less considering its condition. I like hunting with my 22 incher. I now use it mostly for hogs.
Dr. A is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:41 PM   #5
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
Chet...

Appreciate the advice at MarlinOwners. I've posted there, too, but find the experience at TheFiringLine to be excellent, and broad in the range of experience.
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:43 PM   #6
Chet Punisher
Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2012
Posts: 77
I could not agree with you more. I surf many gun forums and although I just recently found this forum, I have found the people welcoming, honest and friendly.
__________________
My Blog: http://accurateshooting.blogspot.com/
Chet Punisher is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:46 PM   #7
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
trap door load works fine to hunt and especially plink with

Dr A.
Thanks for the great answers! The JM in a Classic 22" sounds intriguing.

What does "trap door load" make reference to? I've loaded 30-06, 30-30, .45 ACP, but little else, and missed that term.

BTW, is the 22" Classic roll-stamped with that model name?
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 9, 2012, 09:55 PM   #8
Dr. A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2007
Location: Salina, KS.
Posts: 188
Its easier to look in a reloading manual, but perhaps you can pull up Hodgdon's sight. Powder and bullet manufactures have set forth pressure criteria for safe shooting in 45-70's in the low pressure loads with weak trapdoor actions (Springfield), that are generally below 21,000 cup, beneath 40,000 cup for lever action Marlins and most others, and 50,000 cup for Ruger #1's. Trapdoor loads go somewhat slower, but its still possible to push a 400gr bullet? down the tube at 1500 fps.! It does plenty of hunting at that level. The same bullet going 2100fps is a high pressure load, and greatly increases the recoil and decreases the fun factor. Most increases in velocity merely level out the rainbow like trajectory.

My 22 inch has the 1895 as its model only. Others would say 1895GS, 1895G, 1895CB, 1895SBL and so on. I believe the earlier 1895's had 1895SS which believe it or not was not stainless steel. I think it meant super sport.

Last edited by Dr. A; December 9, 2012 at 10:13 PM.
Dr. A is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 02:42 AM   #9
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,291
The typical factory loads such as Winchester 300 gr go about 1850 fps and IIRC only 20,000 psi .Doesn't sound impressive until you hunt with it !! A big hole and youdon't need much velocity . I got a 300 lb red deer this year [preserve] and a Corbon 300 gr Barnes bullet smashed through both shoulders ,breaking up lots of bone and exiting at 100 yds.That's going 1900 fps.Need more than that ?
I laugh at the short range only comments when in the old days they used to have 1000 yd matches !
So typical factory loads can do more than you expect. Hot loads are hot on both ends.
I have a Browning 1885 about 12 years old .Very well made by Miroku .Originally 28" mine is cut to 22" ,you don't lose much velocity with the 45-70. the longer bareel guns only a benefit for black powder.Now a fine woods gun.
I also have a fine rolling block reproduction ,sadly no longer made .Lone Star Rifle Co ,it comes with a very heavy barrel so the 27" length requires a bipod.

In any case the 45-70 is much better than most think.
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 09:35 AM   #10
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,118
I'm a long time 45-70 owner & hunter ( with 4-5 different guns ) & as newbie in my FIL's deer hunting camp ( many years ago ) I got the "honor" of field dressing all the deer the 1st couple years I went up there... guns typically used ranged from .243, to 300 Win Mag, & I used a 45-70... the 45-70 put down large white tails as fast as anything, with less damaged meat, than even the .243... the blood shot ( bruising ) around the wound track from the higher velocity rounds more often than not, resulted in more loss than that big ol 45 slug moving a bit slower

I used a 22" barrel rifle to start with, & moved shorter... I now have a Guide gun, & actually shoot more with my 14" Contender barrel ( though I've now graduated to a 10" "HOT" 45 Colt barrel & load... if I don't go up north, I'm in shotgun zone, where I'm allowed to use a handgun in the shotgun zone... I'll still use my guide gun, if I go up north, or if I'm hunting "south" I use a Contender...

as far as loads... the factory 300 & 405 both work well... 300's actually kick more, as they move out much faster... I used 300's mostly, when shooting factory, now that I'm handloading, I'm using the Remington 405 bullet, but at velocities closer to the factory 300's
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 09:50 AM   #11
Woody55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2012
Location: East Texas
Posts: 407
One of my sons has a Marlin lever action in .45/70 though I don't recall the model.

We had to take it back to the dealer when he first got it because it wouldn't feed. The gunsmith said he knew what was wrong with it. He must have because he fixed it. But it took a few days and involved driving back and forth to get it back to the store and pick it up.

My son attempted to put a scope on it and abandoned the project. It was too high, kept his cheek off the stock and because of the way he was holding it to see through the scope, he tended to get smacked with the scope.

It gets used as a brush gun. Say 50 yards or under. He's dropped several pigs with it. I don't think he's shot a deer, but I'm sure it would work just fine.
Woody55 is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 11:39 AM   #12
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
Woody55, Magnum Wheel Man, Mete....

To ALL,
I appreciate the anecdotal information as well as comments on factory loads and the re-load potential. This is very helpful commentary.

Thanks...
Smokiniron
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 01:51 PM   #13
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 794
Mine is an 1895 SS, with ballard style rifling (not micro-groove). I've never shot a shorter rifle, so I can't speak to differences there.
I think you should absolutely reload for this gun. I also think you should either cast for it, or buy a good cast bullet for it. Any way you look at it, a 405gr lead bullet traveling at least 1200 fps or so is going to kill just about anything in north America, out to a couple hundred yards or so.
I haven't shot mine on paper any past 100yds, but it is an almost 1" gun at that range, using a scope. Got pictures of several targets to prove it wasn't a fluke. It's very comfortable to shoot at that power level, and would be difficult to beat, as far as game-killing ability.
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 02:54 PM   #14
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
I think you should absolutely reload for this gun.

Thanks, Hornetguy... Yup, I'd likely reload, just so I could afford to shoot and develop some proficiency!
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 04:06 PM   #15
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,307
I just bought a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun with the 18.5 inch barrel, and the 6 round tube. It has the laminant stock. Mine came at a reduced price I will not disclose. Though I would have paid the full $575 they wanted for without complaint.

I put the cartridges on a dollar bill to show scale of size. It has shot the 350 grain cast bullets very well. It shoots better than I can milk it for, though at 25 yards with a sand bag the 10 ring of a B-27 target was gone without a problem.

I should mention that the loads I shot were target loads. The velocity was around 1050 to 1100 FPS. Some would call them "Cowboy" loads. Recoil was a non factor. My 30-30's has more felt recoil than the guide gun with those loads.

__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 06:31 PM   #16
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
Marlin 1895 Guide Gun with the 18.5 inch barrel,

^^^ Nice pic Now, just re-do the sofa in Realtree and you are set for the man-cave!

I've heard lots of endorsements for the 18 1/2" barrel. I suppose it will depend on what I can find at the best price, at least to some extent. The laminate stock looks good. I'm torn on Black Walnut versus laminate, but weather resistance is a factor,too.
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 06:36 PM   #17
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,118
OK... here's my stainless / walnut guide gun for comparision... BTW... the Leverution ammo has been replaced with some nickel cases stuffed with some heavy hard cast bullets, & a very stout load





just for fun...this is my 45-70 double rifle... & yes... it is fun...

__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...

Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; December 10, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 08:20 PM   #18
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
OK... here's my stainless / walnut guide gun for comparision...

OK... you're KILLING me! I think the leather is as nice as the gun! Very classy setup!
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #19
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
I can endorse the 18.5 length model. It is a very handy length and carries well in thick brush & timber. I've shot the 16" ported version and personally found it to be not as desirable. I haven't shot the longer barreled versions but suspect they wouldn't be as handy for brush work.

I tell you one thing, do not ever shoot cowboy loads in them. When I first got mine, I bought a box of PMC cowboy loads mostly just for the brass, to have something to reload for it. They PMC's were .457 bullets and 12 rounds through it leaded it up so bad that I was cussing PMC for a week.

The Marlins like fat bullets whether micro-grooved or ballard rifling. I size to .460 and there is no leading from them. Be careful not to buy .457 size bullets. They love lead bullets but they do have to be fat.

My gunsmith told me that a mag tube from a CS gun could be cut down and fitted to the GG for one extra round should you be interested in that. It would make it 5+1.

The WWG big loop lever is a little too big in my opinion, but being able to use gloves is a plus. Some decent peep sights (Williams) are a big plus and do not ruin the fine lines of the rifle. A WWG Happy Trigger kit is an awesome addition to it and makes the setup near perfect.

Last edited by Edward429451; December 11, 2012 at 10:11 AM.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old December 11, 2012, 11:14 AM   #20
smokiniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 232
The Marlins like fat bullets whether micro-grooved or ballard rifling. I size to .46

Edward429451...

I appreciate the comments on bullet size. I haven't shot lead before, except in a .22. I'm hearing lots about the better performance of a good lead bullet over a factory jacketed one.

Lots to think about. Thanks
__________________
"Figure Out What You Believe and STAND YOUR GROUND!"
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With...
and a few defensive firearms, too!
smokiniron is offline  
Old December 11, 2012, 03:24 PM   #21
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,307
My Marlin shoots better than I can milk it for with .459 diameter. I bought a box of Laser Cast 350 grain bevel based flat points. I shot them with a load of Trail Boss. They shot to point of aim at 25 yards with no problems at all. No lead in the barrel at all.

Though I am waiting on a Lee .459 405 grain hollow base mold for casting my own. I will report on how those do when I get the mold, and load some up. If the mold gets here this week I will cast some, and shoot them this weekend weather permitting.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old December 17, 2012, 07:49 PM   #22
moisanfan11
Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2012
Location: flagstaff, az
Posts: 58
I like the marlin guide gun
moisanfan11 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11568 seconds with 9 queries