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Old December 13, 2012, 04:04 PM   #1
ShootingNut
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How Many Agree With This

I reload with lead cast bullets, and using my Lee equipment do taper crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die.
The following statement is from a reputable cast lead Vendor, how many
agree with him?

As per his website:
Please do not use factory crimp dies for cast bullet reloading. Cast bullets MUST remain in their pristine state in order to shoot accurately. Factory Crimp Dies will decrease the cast bullet's sized diameter and thus will cause many unwanted issues.
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:12 PM   #2
jaguarxk120
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Many of the older loading manuals and the long range shooters recomend shooting bullets in the same order as cast. In other words treat your cast bullets just like precision instruments, crimping will distort the bullet just as tumble lubing create's a bullet that will no longer shoot straight.
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:27 PM   #3
jmorris
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I use the FCD with cast. Once you have everything set up just pull one finished round and compare with an untouched bullet. If they are the same, your good to go.
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:38 PM   #4
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I put a "light" taper crimp, enough to snug up and eliminate the minimal flare of the mouth that I set to allow for seating with no lead shaving.
I'm not being critical of this persons expertise, but feel following the Lee instructions has worked fine for me over time. I do know this person is not a fan of Lee equipment, and prefers Lyman dies.
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Old December 13, 2012, 05:00 PM   #5
tkglazie
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As I have discussed on several threads, I agree, an FCD is perfectly fine for use with cast bullets. Due to loose tolerances at Lee, some people will have tighter FCDs than others. Mine .45acp fcd is a little tight and swages my .452" cast bullets by .0005"-.001". You can see a little ledge at the case mouth when you pull a bullet and the OD of bullet that was inside the case is slightly less than the exposed portion). In .380/9mm/.38/.357 this doesnt happen with the fcds I have

If there is any effect on accuracy I cant tell. Out of an SR1911 I shoot sub-2" groups at 25yds and cant come close to that with any other caliber handgun I load for.
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Old December 13, 2012, 05:07 PM   #6
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I'm jealous, Nice Groups! Shooting offhand at 25 yards?
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Old December 13, 2012, 05:15 PM   #7
jaguarxk120
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Let's see every body does thing there own way, whitch I hope works for them.

But I would take the bullet manufacture's recomenditions, after all they made the bullet and chances are they tested it.
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:00 PM   #8
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Oh heck no ShootingNut, I have no where near the skills for that! Seated, wrist supported on a small bag. I got one 5-shot group down to 1.5" but usually 1.75" is the best I can do. Needless to say I am very happy with both the SR1911 and that particular load (200gr hardcast SWC bullets are from reloadsnmore.com)

I was going to grind out the FCD or get another one to see if was a tad bigger but I just dont have the heart to mess with that setup. It requires a bit of force going into and out of the FCD (nothing really hard, about what a bulge buster would feel like).

One more thing that I like to mention when this topic comes up- this .0005"-.001" swaging happens with every headstamp I use except R&P (Win, FC, PMC, Blazer all do it). Cartridges using R&P brass slide into and out of the FCD without any post sizing at all. Just one more indication that those who feel like R&P brass is thinner than most other brass (at least in .45acp) are correct.
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:05 PM   #9
schmellba99
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A light taper does no harm, especially if you use it to basically remove any vestige of flaring and ensure that the case mouth is within spec.

I could see his view if you were putting a hell of a crimp and actually deforming the projectile, but if that were the case you'd also find yourself with some chambering issues because the round headspaces on the mouth of the case as it is.
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:34 PM   #10
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I use the Lee fcd with cast bullets for my 9 millimeter , Ruger sr9c with a 3.5 inch barrel . I'm using 4.3 grains, with a 115 grain bullet and a 1.115 to 1.120 oal. my flair the mouth of the case enough to not cause shaving when the bullet is seated.I crimp it enough where I get a mild ledge or impression in the cast bullet. Last Monday , I was able to hit 8 out of 10 rounds on a small paper plates at 25 yards . One hit the edge of the plate and the rest group within 4 inches . Luck on my part but you can't argue with the accuracy . At one point , I was concerned about the cast seams affecting the accuracy . I think that all these factors may play a minimal part . if you get the right combination of oal, grains, crimp ,case mouth flair , gun and Gun user the crimp die is a small factor .
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:37 PM   #11
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+1 schmell, word for word
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:48 PM   #12
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He is not talking about the crimp, he is trying to imply that the post sizing ring will squish the bullet deforming it. In my experience he is still wrong. I have never had one of my cast bullets get post sized in a FCD.
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:58 PM   #13
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Crusty
Hi, I believe that you and I exchanged some reloading thoughts quite some time ago. I always appreciated your advice, glad to see your still in it.
I relied very much on TFL forum when I first started loading with my
Lee equipment, drawing on the experience of others.
SN
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Old December 13, 2012, 07:14 PM   #14
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Thanks ShootingNut.

I'll admit the FCD isn't good for every situation but to say never use it with cast bullets is just wrong.
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Old December 13, 2012, 07:35 PM   #15
tkglazie
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Quote:
In my experience he is still wrong. I have never had one of my cast bullets get post sized in a FCD.
How could your experience possibly prove that I am wrong? Care to see the pics of the pulled bullets vs stock bullets, the inside mic measurements of my particular FCD, or any of the of the other particulars? It is great that you have never had one of your cast bullets post sized in an FCD, neither have I on any of my other calibers. This particular FCD, however, is tighter than most others, and does post size .452" bullets when they are seated in all but R&P cases.

Here is a pic of an assembled cartridge (note the sharpie mark rubbed off by the post sizing ring). In the middle is a fresh bullet, on the bottom is a pulled bullet, showing the swaged portion (the swage extends to the base of the bullet. Crimp is .470" max.



Perhaps rather than doubt me in the future you might consider that I do not make statements unless I have the facts to back them up. I extend this courtesy to you already.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:00 PM   #16
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In automatics, I have never TC'd cast bullets. Mainly because I seldom use cast bullets. Since autos headspace on the rim I would not feel safe crimping the case lip into the bullet or a canelure. One exception would be a revolver with moon clips.
Revolvers are a different story as crimping is a must.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
How could your experience possibly prove that I am wrong?
I didn't say you were wrong. I said from my experience to say nobody should use a FCD with cast bullets is wrong. I have measured my cast bullets, they all size at .452. I seated some with no powder or primer in mixed brass. I seated the bullets and ran them into the FCD with the crimp stem backed out so it wouldn't be an issue. I felt no resistance going in or out of the FCD. I pulled all of the bullets and they all still measured .452. So tell me where is the problem with my FCD? I know many people with the same experience as myself.

Quote:
Perhaps rather than doubt me in the future you might consider that I do not make statements unless I have the facts to back them up. I extend this courtesy to you already.
I was never talking about you I was talking about the bullet caster being quoted in the original post. Trust me it's not all about you unless you are the bullet caster being quoted in the original post. If you are the you are wrong.
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Last edited by CrustyFN; December 13, 2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:16 PM   #18
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Crusty- there is no problem with your FCDs. As there are no problems with all my other FCDs. However, you DID say I was wrong (see your previous post), but thats fine, I am a big boy (plus I like your posts so I will let it go!) but the fact is, Lee ships FCDs of various diameters. It took me a while to realize that mine is tight.

I went back to the original thread that caused me to measure my FCD and I see that you were a part of the discussion. Maybe you remember it? As discussed there, my FCD measures .4715", which of course could not accept a .452" bullet in a .010" wall case without swaging it. We can agree on that of course.

To the OPs question, yes, you can use an FCD with cast bullets, but be aware, not all FCDs are created the same, and the one you have could contact the case and perhaps even slightly swage the bullet.

If there is any disagreement with the above, lets discuss. There is more than enough FCD disinformation out there and at least on this forum we should be able to keep things straight amongst ourselves, agreed?
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Crusty- there is no problem with your FCDs. As there are no problems with all my other FCDs. However, you DID say I was wrong (see your previous post), but thats fine, I am a big boy (plus I like your posts so I will let it go!) but the fact is, Lee ships FCDs of various diameters.
If you could point it out to me I would appreciate it.

Quote:
He is not talking about the crimp, he is trying to imply that the post sizing ring will squish the bullet deforming it. In my experience he is still wrong. I have never had one of my cast bullets get post sized in a FCD.
This post was directed at the commercial caster in the original post not you. Sorry if you thought it was directed at you. Then in my next post I agreed that the FCD is not for every situation like the one you posted and it seems that a lot of the 40 S&W FCD's seem to have problems. Also somebody needing oversived bullets shouldn't use one. I'm sure there are many more reasons.

Quote:
To the OPs question, yes, you can use an FCD with cast bullets, but be aware, not all FCDs are created the same, and the one you have could contact the case and perhaps even slightly swage the bullet.
That is my point. The FCD can be used with cast bullets. For the quote in the OP that says never use the FCD with cast bullets, I have to disagree with that, and it looks like you do also.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrustyFN View Post
He is not talking about the crimp, he is trying to imply that the post sizing ring will squish the bullet deforming it. In my experience he is still wrong. I have never had one of my cast bullets get post sized in a FCD.
It was this post that I read as calling me wrong. Again, no offense taken even if you were, I enjoy a good back and forth and hold no ill will towards anyone on this board, and certainly not good posters like you.

I do think we are in agreement on the basic premise of this thread. Heck. I probably use my FCDs more than I need to but so far I havent found a reason not to. Thats one of the things I like about the LCT, that 4th station makes it as easy to use one as not.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:08 PM   #21
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In my experience, the post sizing ring does deform or otherwise destroy my cast boolit (i.e. size) and I would not personally recommend them to anyone. I suppose it actually would depend on what size your cast boolits are, and what size the Lee FCD post sizing ring is, in the inside diameter.

From what I hear, Lee is not consistent in the sizing ring inner diameter, and this could explain why some say that the sizing ring does not size their boolits. I have only tried the one FCD in 44 cal., so that is hardly a representative amount of use to draw a positive conclusion from. I do like the crimp it applies so I simply popped out the sizing ring with a punch. That is enough for me to want to stay away from them, but that is a personal decision for me alone.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
I do think we are in agreement on the basic premise of this thread. Heck. I probably use my FCDs more than I need to but so far I havent found a reason not to. Thats one of the things I like about the LCT, that 4th station makes it as easy to use one as not.
Yea it's all good. I probably use them in every pistol caliber out of laziness. I like to use the post sizing ring as a case gauge. If a round gets post sized it gets set to the side, if not it goes in the ammo box. This way I don't have to sit there and case gauge my ammo after I'm done loading because I know everything is in spec. I have been lucky and only had two rounds get post sized five years ago. I have never had a malfunction at a match or plinking. Now if I could just shoot better at the matches I would be set. I also love my LCT press.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:19 PM   #23
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The Lee FCDs that have a carbide ring at the base could reform/resize a lead bullet.

The ones without the carbide ring should be fine.

The one I have for my 40 S&W has a carbide ring - irons out the "glock bulge."

The two I have for my 45-70 and 30-30 rifles do not have a carbide ring and they're fine with cast bullets.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:33 PM   #24
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In my experience, the post sizing ring does deform or otherwise destroy my cast boolit (i.e. size) and I would not personally recommend them to anyone. I suppose it actually would depend on what size your cast boolits are, and what size the Lee FCD post sizing ring is, in the inside diameter.
Yea the FCD's seem to be hit or miss. I like using them and they work great for the purpose I need. If I got a FCD that was not right I would get a hold of Lee and have them exchange it for one that is. I don't know maybe it's just me but I see Dillon people getting bad or broken parts replaced every day and talking about how great Dillon CS is. Then people that get a bad Lee part don't give them a chance to make it right and tell everybody not to use them. I'm not singling anybody out here. It's seems to be what I see at many different forums.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:36 PM   #25
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Cool. Yeah, thats what gets me about my .45 fcd, all my others never touch anything. You know what, I am going to do what I said I was going to do before, order another .45 FCD and measure it, if it measures .472+, I will use it for my cast bullets and reserve my other for fmj only. As much as I love the results I hate the strain the tight fcd puts on my elbow round after round. I much prefer a FCD that touches only the very few cases that have issues.

Last edited by tkglazie; December 13, 2012 at 09:41 PM.
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