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Old December 12, 2012, 10:24 PM   #1
bonefamily
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DAO Q

While I am still learning, are there different DAO trigger designs? The reason I am asking, my wife's new Taurus PLY-25 came in and we went to pick it up tonight. While reading the manual and learning the pistol, she racked the slide and when she went to releive the trigger (snap caps ordered and on the way), obviously it fired - and when she checked it again to be sure the trigger was fully reset it fired again, and then again. When I dry fire practice (with snap caps) with my Kel Tec P-32 DAO, I have to rack the slide after every trigger pull to reset the trigger. With the PLY-25 it would just fire and fire and fire. Can someone please explain why?

Thanks!
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Old December 12, 2012, 11:03 PM   #2
chris in va
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Striker fired guns only give you once chance to pull the trigger. Once that pin drops, the trigger won't pull it back again for a restrike, making it necessary to rack the slide. Hammer fired guns give you the ability to pull the trigger and hit the primer again.
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Old December 13, 2012, 12:18 AM   #3
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Thanks, chris in va - I understand now. I have seen in many posts about striker fired and hammer fired but never really knew the differences between them. Now I do

Are there any other differences, or perhaps why one might choose one over the other?
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Old December 13, 2012, 12:50 AM   #4
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I prefer a hammer due to the lighter trigger pull. I have a Sig P226, which is hammer fired and DA/SA. I can carry it loaded and de-cocked, which makes the first pull heavy if I don't cock the hammer while drawing, although subsequent shots are fairly light. I know some people would rather have a consistent trigger pull, but I figure the only way I won't have time to cock the hammer is if someone is on top of me and then I'm basically shoving the gun into their chest. I also carry a Glock 26, which is my main carry gun. I love carrying the Glock, but it's not nearly as enjoyable to shoot, nor are any other Glocks I have shot due to the striker fired trigger. They can certainly be mastered, but I don't love shooting them like I do my Sig.
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Old December 13, 2012, 01:12 AM   #5
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While I think re-strike capability is of dubious value (you're better off just racking a fresh round in for the time you've spent), I tend to prefer a double-action hammer with a good, hard strike like that on a Beretta 92 or Sig 226, to make sure things work fine even with hard primers.
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Old December 13, 2012, 02:41 AM   #6
bonefamily
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Thanks all. The rated trigger pull (I have no means of getting the actual pull weight) of the P-32 reads to be between 5 and 6 lbs., which I thought was a lighter pull, no?

Also, while researching about this, the Wiki site reads that the P-32 is hammer fired with an internal hammer block for safety. Of course as I stated, only one trigger pull per slide rack which indicates striker fired... ?? (just when I thought I was starting to get things)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P-32
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:04 AM   #7
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BF, 12/13/12

You asked if there are different DAO trigger designs? There are a number of different DAO triggers. Some are long and heavy with each pull like a revolver (the SW 3rd generation metal pistols like the 3953 9mm pistol). Some have two different weights of DAO pull depending on how far you let the trigger reset (example- Sig DAK pistols). Some have a light, short trigger pull with a short reset point like the Glocks. Some give you a choice of two different weights of DAO trigger pull- the HK LEM system. So there are a number of different types of DAO systems. The only way to figure out what works for you is to try the different types until you find one you like. Good luck.

Merry Christmas- oldandslow
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:22 AM   #8
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DAO triggers tend to be be very different from one another. Don't assume that just because a DAO utilizes a hammer to strike the firing pin it has second strike capability. The Ruger LC9 is DAO hammer design, but no second strike capability. That's because the slide partially resets the hammer after firing. I suppose the trigger pull would be even longer if this wasn't the case.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:51 AM   #9
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I don't recall any DAO pistols other than the Taurus models that have re-strike capability. Are there others?
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:02 AM   #10
Skans
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Quote:
I don't recall any DAO pistols other than the Taurus models that have re-strike capability. Are there others?
I don't know them all, but AMT 45 Backup has re-strke capability.
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
DAO triggers tend to be be very different from one another. Don't assume that just because a DAO utilizes a hammer to strike the firing pin it has second strike capability. The Ruger LC9 is DAO hammer design, but no second strike capability.
+1; the aforementioned hammer-fired S&W Model 3953, along with all the other 3rd-gen metal-frame S&W DAO pistols, also operates this way.

The trigger of a S&W DAO metal-frame pistol is partially pre-set when the slide is cycled, which yields about 2/3 the trigger pull length and weight of the first-shot DA trigger pull of a traditional DA/SA S&W pistol; however, the DAO models lack second-strike capability, whereas the DA/SA versions have it. The DAO models also have an unusual rounded hammer that can't be hand-cocked, but it projects from the slide when the trigger is pre-set, giving the shooter an obvious tactile indication that the pistol is ready to fire.
Quote:
I don't recall any DAO pistols other than the Taurus models that have re-strike capability.
The SIG P250 and P290 do. SIG pistols with the DAK trigger have it, as does the HK USP with the DAO or LEM trigger modules; however, both the DAK and LEM triggers have a short-reset feature that allows follow-up shots with a shorter and lighter pull if the shooter does not return the trigger fully forward, so they're arguably not "true DAO".

AFAIK the Walther P99DAO also has second-strike capability, but I've had a hard time verifying this because I understand that this pistol is rare to the point of near nonexistence on the U.S. commercial market, so there's not much info available about it.
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Last edited by carguychris; December 13, 2012 at 03:49 PM. Reason: minor reword...
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Old December 13, 2012, 10:06 AM   #12
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Striker fired guns only give you once chance to pull the trigger. Once that pin drops, the trigger won't pull it back again for a restrike, making it necessary to rack the slide.
Not necessairly. The Walther P99AS is striker-fired and has double-strike capability. However, it is a DA/SA design, not DAO.

Last edited by Fishbed77; December 13, 2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old December 13, 2012, 10:31 AM   #13
lee n. field
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Quote:
While I am still learning, are there different DAO trigger designs? The reason I am asking, my wife's new Taurus PLY-25 came in and we went to pick it up tonight. While reading the manual and learning the pistol, she racked the slide and when she went to releive the trigger (snap caps ordered and on the way), obviously it fired - and when she checked it again to be sure the trigger was fully reset it fired again, and then again. When I dry fire practice (with snap caps) with my Kel Tec P-32 DAO, I have to rack the slide after every trigger pull to reset the trigger. With the PLY-25 it would just fire and fire and fire. Can someone please explain why?
This is not a hammer fired vs. striker fired thing.

The small Kel Tecs are hammer fired pistols. Some are designed so that the normal rest position of the hammer is slightly "pre-cocked". This is also the case in some of the Kel Tec copies|copies|knock-offs|"homages", like the Ruger LCP. Normal cycling of the slide, either from firing or racking the slide, sets the pre-cock. You pulling the trigger pulls the hammer the rest of the way.
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Old December 13, 2012, 11:52 AM   #14
carguychris
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The Walther P99AS is striker-fired and has double-strike capability. However, it is a DA/SA design, not DAO.
+1, see my post #11; AFAIK the P99DAO functions like the P99AS but lacks the SA mode and the manual decocker. (My post may have come through while you were still writing yours. )
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Old December 13, 2012, 11:59 AM   #15
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i'm pretty sure the sig dak action allows restrikes.
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Old December 13, 2012, 01:53 PM   #16
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As someone mentioned earlier...the SIG P250 is DAO with 2nd strike capability.
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Old December 14, 2012, 12:22 AM   #17
bonefamily
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Thanks for all the information everyone. Oy, all the different information is overwhelming to say the least. I believe I understand most of it all, but will continue to study and do my "homework"...

Well, at least we know that the wife's Taurus PLY-25 will be nicer for snap cap dry fire practice for her and I'll just have to rack and rack and rack on mine
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Old December 14, 2012, 02:33 PM   #18
chris in va
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I had a KelTec P11 for a few years. It was an older design, DAO. The hammer would fall every trigger pull, but the pull length was terribly long.

I think the P32 is a newer design like the P3AT. They attempted to lessen the long pull and in doing so, had to make it so the hammer would be partially cocked. Unfortunately it also means you get one chance to hit that primer.
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Old December 14, 2012, 05:55 PM   #19
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Not to split hairs, but any trigger system that requires slide movement in order to re-cock it, is NOT really double -action.....and certainly NOT DAO. Since there are only two common classifications for trigger designs, namely Single-Action and Double-Action, it is somewhat hard to make an exact classification, with SOME guns.

However, the gun described by the OP is definitely NOT "DAO". Neither are Glock-style trigger systems TRUE DAO. At best, they are a hybrid, being partly cocked by slide movement and partly cocked by the trigger. Those striker fired guns that are essentially fully cocked all of the time (especially when a round is chambered).....are probably better described as SA, if no "double strike" capability is present. True DAO requires that the TRIGGER serve to both fully cock the gun (from an uncocked condition)....and fire the gun.

Just sayin'.....for purposes of clarification.
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Old December 14, 2012, 06:08 PM   #20
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As infrequently as I get misfires with good SD rounds (I've never actually had one), I tend to think the hype over "second strike capability" is overblown.
I think my BG380 is the only gun I have that has it, but I've never had to use it. As others have pointed out, true DA triggers tend to be long and heavy - due to the fact that the trigger pull is doing more mechanical work - and I'd far rather have a better trigger than be able to pull it a second time.
Furthermore, from the - admittedly limited - experience I do have with dud rounds If a primer doesn't go off the first time, chances are it's not going to go off even if you do hit it again.
I do train with snap caps from time to time just in case I ever do get a misfire, but tap & rack seems like it's a better idea than trying to pull the trigger again anyway.

So, aside from being a pain to use with the laserlyte cartridges, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old December 14, 2012, 08:27 PM   #21
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I dont believe its been mentionded that taurus guns like the pt111 pro i had have "double strike capability" in other words its a self reseting trigger. you can pull it and pull it again and that pin ll keep hitting that primer as many times as you want it to except why would you? you got a dud just eject it and get a fresh round.
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