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Old November 30, 2012, 09:43 AM   #1
BigRick
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Khyber Pass Copy Valuation

Hello everyone. I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan and am looking at some Martini rifles. I'm a little educated on how to tell Khyber Pass Copies from genuine rifles. My question is how much is an admitted copy worth as a wall-hanger? The local's asking price is $50, I'm guessing another $50 for shipping stateside. I could bargain him down to $40 at a minimum (I think ) then ship it home and sell it for a profit. Any thoughts?
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:01 AM   #2
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If you're being honest with the potential buyer that these are wall hangers only, I'd think $100 would be the absolute top value for one.

Last edited by jtb1967; November 30, 2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:17 AM   #3
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Knowing the limited amount I do about Khyber Passes, I would never present one as a legitimate, genuine firearm. I would tell a potential buyer what I know about these copies and what proves that mine is not the genuine article.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:03 PM   #4
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I'd figure that there's a limited market, but I'd also figure that they are fairly uncommon, if not rare. So, some premium for rarity, collectability.

I've no knowledge of the legal aspects of getting one into the U.S.
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Old November 30, 2012, 07:06 PM   #5
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I think I'd just buy an old dirty original from Atlanta Cutlery.

www.atlantacutlery.com/s-72-guns-rifles.aspx

There's a book about the guns they bought.


http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1245...over-book.aspx

"The full color narrative of the hunt to save the forgotten arsenal of the Royal Nepalese Gurkha Army. Stored in an old palace, Lagan Silekhana, since 1839 this was a 30 year quest completed in 2004 saving more than 50,000 antique firearms including over 150 cannon"
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Old November 30, 2012, 11:54 PM   #6
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Hey Art, I've checked with customs on shipping one to the states. Their take is "as long as it takes an uncommon, not readily available ammunition" my response was something along the lines of "even for these ones you guys have ok'ed, if you hand load and know where to look, ammunition isn't hard to find or get."

But I regress, Their standards are any pre 1900 firearm as well as all black powder (cap and flint lock stuff). If it takes modern cartridges it can not be shipped home.
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Old December 1, 2012, 01:49 AM   #7
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Be prepared to sell them again.

I'd run out of fingers and toes if I tried to count the number of pre-1898 Afghani weapons that were given the "okay" by customs, only to tell the service member "no [expletive] way" when it was time to actually send them home.

We even had one guy spend two and a half days in lockup, while the MPs and special investigators poked around to see if they could stick him for 'weapons smuggling'.
He tried to send two archaic flintlocks home, and even had everything "cleared" by customs.
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Old December 1, 2012, 06:06 AM   #8
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FrankenMauser, were they trying to bring them home via either checked bags or carry on? I could understand that, but sending them through USPS?
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Old December 1, 2012, 08:02 AM   #9
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I know the genuine Khyber Pass Lee Enfields are collectable but not worth a lot of money. $150+/- for something that is really nice.

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Old December 1, 2012, 06:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
FrankenMauser, were they trying to bring them home via either checked bags or carry on? I could understand that, but sending them through USPS?
Checked baggage.
USPS.
DHL.
General (military) Air Cargo. (A perk of our unit - unavailable to most service members.)
And, even as a (legal) portion of a shipment of helicopter parts.

The only ones I ever saw make it back to the states, were the ones that were truly smuggled back - under helicopter floors, inside engine casings, between layers of vehicle armor, inside damaged rotor blades, etc. (I am not suggesting or advocating doing such.) And all of those guys still got caught or turned in, anyway.



If I were in your position, I would try shipping a single rifle back.
If it fails, you can resell it without taking a huge loss.
If it works, you can buy more and try your luck again.
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Old December 4, 2012, 12:50 AM   #11
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Thanks for the heads up. I truly appreciate it, I did stop in and check with the customs guys a few days ago. I don't know if the regulations have changed between your experiences and now but they said the only thing that would keep me from sending 15 of them home is each firearm has to have four original (not photocopy) handwritten forms filled out and stamped by them (the customs guys) and they wouldn't do all those forms at one time.

I will definitely buy just one and try shipping it solo. A friend here is also interested in getting one and sending it home, regardless if I do or not. I'll pass on what you guys have said and see if he trys still. If he is successful then I'll know I'm golden.

My biggest gripe/problem is being the way I am, I can't buy a gun and not shoot it, which if I don't get a genuine rifle is definitely a problem. I know I'm no supermodel but I don't think getting my face blown off by shooting a copy will help my cause. I'm starting to think the extra few hundred sent to Atlanta Cutlery would be money better spent. . .
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Old December 4, 2012, 06:35 PM   #12
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The reason there's such a mix of applied standards is that to fall under the "antique - not a firearm" rule it has to be a true antique, made before 1898, and you don't know that with a Khyber pass special. Add to that that late Martini rifles were chambered in 303 British (which you can still get at any better gun shop), and you're in violation of pretty much any gun rule there is if you mail them home. Approval from the US Customs office won't help there, they're only interested in monetary value type things. You'd need an AFT letter stating that the weapons indeed fall under the antique rule first.
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Old December 4, 2012, 06:46 PM   #13
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My son sent a couple Martini Enfields back from Afghanistan during his first deployment. Shipped via USPS. I also have the copies of the filled out military forms required to send them back. To my knowledge the only restriction was that they were made prior to 1898.

Whether it saw duty in battles for the Kyber Pass.....who knows?....we can only hope.


Note date "1873" stamped on receiver.



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Old December 5, 2012, 01:09 AM   #14
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Very nice, Rembrandt.
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:48 PM   #15
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"Any firearm with a receiver actually made before Jan 1, 1899 is legally "antique." and not considered a "firearm" under Federal law." Unless it is auto fire or falls under the NFA rules for some reason. If you ever watched Pawn Stars they do not have an FFL and only deal with weapons made before the date above.

You do have to go to the customs office sand then a legal office that customs will refer you to to do the forms and I beleive they have to go back via USPS Registered Mail.

The problem is that the Afghans are pretty adept at making copies of firearms.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:02 PM   #16
1 old 0311-1
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Some Khyber pass weapons were better than the originals. Only problem is you don't know what the quality of yours will be. Go $50. It is worth the conversation piece at that price.
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Old December 6, 2012, 08:13 AM   #17
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One of my biggest issues is I'm like a little 3 year old. You tell me I can't play with something and that makes me want to play with it worse than ever. Even if it happens to be a gun of dubious authenticity and quality that when fired may explode in my face. Darn kids anyway.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:20 PM   #18
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I'd like to have one of the "fakes" so I could show some anti-gun idiot just what could be done with relatively primitive tools. And point out that we don't register lathes and milling machines--and anybody can buy a chunk or two of steel.
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Old December 8, 2012, 09:58 AM   #19
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I'll probably break down and buy two or three. Just remind me in May Art, I'll sell you one for what I have in it at that point.
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Old December 10, 2012, 09:20 PM   #20
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Hell, with just a little work you could be in business. Decent non-firing reproductions run a few hundred dollars for most firearm types.

Has to be some sort of government program for any sort of Afghan export.
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Old December 11, 2012, 03:44 AM   #21
BigRick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062
Has to be some sort of government program for any sort of Afghan export.
I don't know about that John, a lot of these are kind of sold under the radar. There's no NCIS checks here.
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Old December 11, 2012, 09:30 AM   #22
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If you as an individual can mail one home, believe me the US government is going to allow an incorporated entity to do the same.
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