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Old April 22, 2011, 08:17 AM   #101
MrBorland
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First, welcome to TFL!

Quote:
I own a CZ 452 Ultra Lux. I consistently shoot one inch circles at 50 yards using a Simmons 3-9x scope.
A scope on an Ultra Lux? Shame on you.

Quote:
I have become fascinated with the Marlin 39A and found this thread. Does anyone have first-hand experience shooting both guns?
I posted this earlier in this thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...5&postcount=39
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Old April 22, 2011, 08:30 AM   #102
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This debate is hilarious to me...saying the 39a is head and shoulders above a 452 in accuracy is... 6 one way/half a dozen the other...the 39a is a very nice lever action with very good fit and finish..the 452s also has excellent fit and finish, the trigger is the only glaring difference. My buddys dad has a 1970s 39a thats beautiful however its no more accurate than any other lower priced Sav MkII bolt action or HB barreled 10/22..I own a 10/22 with a .920 clark barrel that will more than hang with his 39a..I'd also put my Sav Mk II and 452 up against a 39a on paper anyday as well.
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Old April 22, 2011, 10:08 AM   #103
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I love Marlin lever actions but count me in the CZ camp on this one. My 452 easily shoots sub moa at 100 yards and doesn't need expensive match grade ammo to do it. The look on a buddy's face the first time he saw what it could at the range was priceless. I was consistently hitting the bullet holes from his 7 mag at 100 yards. I shimmed the trigger and put in a lighter spring. Otherwise, it is completely stock.
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Old April 22, 2011, 10:32 AM   #104
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For the folks who shoot moa or sub moa at 100 yards what do you do to achieve this. He'll just a light breeze screws with me with .22 at 100 yards even with really accurate rifles. I have gotten the occasional lucky 1 inch or less at 100 yards but I cannot do it consistently.
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Old April 22, 2011, 07:48 PM   #105
SRH78
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Quote:
For the folks who shoot moa or sub moa at 100 yards what do you do to achieve this. He'll just a light breeze screws with me with .22 at 100 yards even with really accurate rifles. I have gotten the occasional lucky 1 inch or less at 100 yards but I cannot do it consistently.
Sandbags, a lightened trigger, and a range that is fairly protected from the wind. Also, I don't know what ammo you are using but the high velocity stuff is generally less accurate. The subsonics are typically much better. I have gotten great results with the Winchester 40 grain subsonic hollowpoints in particular. With any sort of bulk ammo, the number of flyers goes way up.

Btw, match ammo is nearly all subsonic.
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Old April 22, 2011, 08:08 PM   #106
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I have a 39A (from the early 80's) and a 9422 (age unknown) and an old Savage 87D that my grandfather gave me many years ago. The 39A is more accurate than the 9422, but not a lot more accurate. I've never shot the old Savage against the Marlin, but I might give it a try to see what happens. I don't have a CZ, but I've heard good things about them and I'd be surprised if a decent bolt action wouldn't shoot a bit better than a lever action. Still, I won a club shoot in the late 80's with that 39A at 100 yards, and everyone else had a bolt action. The only 22 I ever had that was really really a tack driver was a Remington 513T, with a 26 inch bull barrel. It was truly amazing, but way too heavy to hunt with, so I resold it. Anyway...I'm not letting go of my 39A.
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Old April 22, 2011, 10:31 PM   #107
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This thread is 4 1/2 yrs old and they are still squabbling over it. Now THIS is entertainment............
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Old April 23, 2011, 11:05 AM   #108
603Country
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Wow! 4 1/2 years...I'd have thought that somebody out there would have both rifles and have done an honest comparison by now.
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Old April 23, 2011, 01:56 PM   #109
Danny Creasy
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Here ya go Country:

I started USBR bench rest matches at my club back in 2007. The USBR Sporter Class is pretty restrictive with the shooter having to use a factory sporter with only very limited mods allowed. I think that just about any rimfire BR shooter would admit that the USBR Green Monster target is the ultimate test of a .22's accuracy. The class is dominated by CZ 452 Americans locally. Marlin 39s have been brought to play about a half a dozen times. This Spring 2008 score roster represents the typical results:


Sporter Class

220-3X, Tim Blacklidge, CZ American, Weaver V-16, Lapua Midas L

219-3X, Danny Creasy, Anschutz 1710, Weaver V-16, Lapua Master M

214-0X, Willie Rhodes, CZ American, BSA 3-9, SK Match

210-0X, Bart Harkins, CZ American, Leupold VX II 6-18X40, ammo ?

209-1X, Charles Seifreid, CZ American, Pine Ridge 6-18X40, Lapua M

203-1X, Tony Gilmore, Savage MK II BV, Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Federal Gold Metal

202-0X, Peary Willard, Savage Mk II FV, Barska 6.5-20, Federal Champion Target

198-2X, David King, CZ 452 American, Nikko Sterling 4-10, SK Std Plus

197-1X, Dwight Rickard, Anschutz 1416 HB, Leupold 6.5-20, Eley EPS Black Box

191-0X, David Hollimon, CZ 452 American, Simmons 22 Mag, Wolf ME

188-0X, James Kimbrough, Savage Mk II, Tasco World Class, ammo ?

180-0X, Jack Belew, Savage Mk II, Tasco 40X, Eley Club

178-0X, Barry Holmes, Cooper 57M, Leupold Vari X III 4.5-14, SK Std Plus

177-1X, Anedra Gilmore, Savage Mk II, Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Federal Gold Metal

157-0X, Reece Stewart, Ruger 77/22, Aguila Match Black Box

118-0X, Gene Nobinger, Marlin 39, Simmons 3-9, Remington Yellow Jacket




Gene bought a Savage Mk II and started breaking 200 a few matches later. Even with a more powerful scope and better ammo, his best with the Marlin lever gun was a 144.

Don't get me wrong. I own and love my Marlin 39A (pictured above in an earlier post in this thread). But, a 39 cannot hold a candle to a CZ bolt rifle in the accuracy department. By the way, I own and regularly shoot 7 CZ 452s.
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:10 PM   #110
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CZ shooting

although I'm new to the forum, I enjoy shooting rimfires. A buddy had an incredible shooting Anschutz that we were able to split bullets on an axe blade at 50 yards. Then he bought a 452 b/c the Anschutz barrel was to big for the rifle club matches he shot in. The CZ was even better, but he wouldn't part w/ the higher $ gun, although I tried my best. I bought a 453 in .22 and it is certainly minute-of-squirrel head at 50 yards and beyond. I shoot Eley subsonic hollow points. I haven't known the rifle to miss, although I do on occasion. My best shot was slightly over 110 yards. I have upgraded my daughter's arsenal to a 452 Style and can't wait to compare the two.
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Old December 9, 2012, 12:40 PM   #111
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Dual Perspectives

I recently came to be the owner of both a Marlin 39A and a CZ 452 Military Trainer. Both are amazing rifles, but different. I've been in the hunt for a 39A for a few years and found one at a semi decent price. That to me is the 39A's downfall...its price. Mine is a 1952 gun and the book value on it is 350ish but I paid a little over 400. I've not seen a 39A for sale in anything like over 80% condition for less than 400 in the last year or so. Plus I know the new 39A's are scarce. How scarce? Well, after visiting over 8 major gun stores and mega stores I haven't seen a new one on the rack. The CZ has a wide range of guns in different price points. The Military Trainer is a good little gun it has military style rear sight and a fully adjustable front sight and trigger. With a 25'' barrel this little gun for $325 NIB is as a good a gun as the money can buy. The American sport market will see CZ really take hold in the coming years. They make a darned good product (rifles speaking not any judgement on their shotguns) and will be able to stay price competitive in years to come. Bottom line is the 39A and the CZ 452 are just different. Out of box accuracy is a much talked about topic but with a few exceptions most .22's are good accurate guns. A lot of people's complaints are not the gun's fault but the shooters. I love my 39A and if I were to go small game hunting no doubt its 16 shot tube and quick action would be my choice. If I'm at the range trying to plink at 100yds its the CZ. I'm not in the business of hating good guns just because I have one or the other (or both), but only in hating bad guns like say anything Brazilian or Chinese made.
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Old December 9, 2012, 03:38 PM   #112
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I own a CZ455 American. This is the model with the switchable barrels -22LR, 17 HMR, and 22 Mag. I only own the 22LR barrel right now.

I had been shopping for a CZ452 when I ran across this rifle on the used rifle rack at my LGS. The store owner had sold it to the previous owner, who had brought it back saying he couldn't the broad side of a barn with it. Being the tinker I am and knowing that CZ rimfires can be very fussy about ammo, I bought it. Heck, I had to buy it, it was such a good deal.

I also collect vintage US-made Redfield scopes, and I happened to have a 3-9x40 on the bench along with a set of Burris Signature rimfire rings. I mounted these on the rifle. Then, I began collecting different brands of rimfire ammo.

To make a long story short, this rifle, at 50 yards, is an extremely consistent sub-moa shooter with the right ammo. For this rifle, that means Wolf MT and CCI Std Vel. It shoots Remington Target well, except for occaisional fliers. CCI Stingers, Yellow Jackets, and WWB open the groups considerably. Federal bulk is somewhere in between. I have not tried SK yet.

I ended up not doing anything to the rifle other than mounting the scope. The trigger is not as sweet as the CZ set trigger, but it is an acceptable 2-stage. I may put a Yo Dave trigger kit in it, or I may wait for the 455 set trigger to be available.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:00 PM   #113
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Thread from the dead.........

Zombies, like this one, shoot CZ's!
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:17 AM   #114
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Zombie thread indeed.

It is really funny looking back at some of the posts from 2006. One in particular stated CZs were junk.

I know CZ has flown under the radar for a while but they are well known out here now.

I have two of their handguns and one of their rifles.

I have both the 39A and a 452 Trainer. Both have had trigger work done.

I shoot both of them pretty well and have really come to appreciate the quality in both rifles.

I do shoot the 452 better. I am really starting to appreciate the fine points of rim fires.

It is probably time to start switching some ammo and see if either can be improved.
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Old December 10, 2012, 03:21 PM   #115
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geetarman,

I've found that 22s are much more picky about ammunition than other rifles. I have a Kimber 22 rifle that will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards.

Of course you have to use match ammo and set the scope for 12" high and wait 7 seconds for the bullets to get there.

But, my CZ will shoot with any other rifle all day.

Even my Browning 22 Auto will hang with most bolt guns if I have the right ammo and do my part.

The thread was interesting to look through.
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:17 PM   #116
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aww man i just looked at this threads op date. i was about to say that i wanted in on that game. i'm gonna have to throw my hat in with the CZ boys. i have a 452 american that i only shoot subsonic hp out off and its something else. IF a marlin of any make could equal what this rifle can do i would be very surprised. i'm in the market for a weatherby mark XXII which is just a rebranded anshutz 64 barreled action. but, i don't wanna step down in performance to spend twice as much on the rifle. my CZ loves sk/lapua subsonic hp. i would hate to see what it would actually do with true target grade ammo. not brag as i was just proud of the rifle,and myself, but the other afternoon i was shooting the CZ with 4 diff types of ss hp ammo just to see what it liked the best. when i avg'd three 5 shot groups at 50 yds the sk/lapua avg'd out to .35" ctc. if a marlin,especially a lever action, will best that then i take my hat off to the operator and rifle because you are truly a cracker jack of a shot.
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Old December 10, 2012, 11:21 PM   #117
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Interesting thread...

I own a cz 452 and love it. It'll shoot dime size 5 shot groups at 50 yards all day long! Never owned or shot the Marlin but it sounds like a great 22lr. As for shooting a crow at 100yds...I once shot a bird flying overhead in the head with my weatherby XXII 22 auto...just one of those shots that I could never duplicate...or maybe...
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Old January 27, 2013, 10:22 AM   #118
gunsetc
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CZ 452 Ultra Lux tops Marlin 39A

I owned my CZ before I bought the Marlin. I can shoot consistent 1 inch groups with the CZ at 50 yards.

I bought a new 39A with a 2011 manufacture date. Using the same brand and model scope as on the CZ, the Marlin couldn't group better than 1.5 inches, and rarely better than 2 inches.

More important, the 39A was plagued with very frequent fail-to-fire, fail-to-extract problems. Marlin had the 39A twice for warranty repair with no improvement in performance. They then sent me a brand new replacement 39A with no better results than the original. Ultimately, I convinced them to buy back the 39A. The process took 4.5 months from the first report of the problem to the refund.

I just bought a Henry Golden Boy and am waiting for the scope mount so that I can shoot it at 50 yards. I have already shot it at 25 yards indoors with the iron sights with pleasing, if not stellar results. No malfunctions.

Last edited by gunsetc; January 27, 2013 at 10:28 AM.
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