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Old December 10, 2012, 02:32 PM   #1
rajbcpa
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Is finding the wrong bullet in a new package a safety issue?

The packages of 100 each were new un-opened from the manufacturor - premium hollow point - jacketed. At the start of the session, I weighed several bullets and they were in spec as far as weigh goes.

Later, two bullets were found in the boxes that were a completely different caliber, different weight and different construction. The wrong bullets were found only after the loading process was begun and +120 cases were completed. (Two new boxes of the same manufacteror were dumped into the single empty bullet tray at the begining of the session)

The issue I am troubled with is the possibility that some of the bullets in the new package may be the correct caliber and correct construction but the WRONG weight. I can test weigh the remaining bullets that have not been loaded into cases, but there is no way of knowing if the completed cases have the correct weight bullets; right?

If you loaded the wrong weight bullet with a powder charge that was designed for a different weight bullet, I asssume you could have a safety issue; right?

What should I do now?

I still have 5 new unopend boxes of the same bullets....
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Old December 10, 2012, 02:37 PM   #2
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1. Stop production
2. Weigh remaining projectiles and determine if they are all of same weight or if there are other issues.
3. Odds are i'd pull each loaded round already and verify. You aren't that far into it, and let's be realistic here - a couple of extra hours of pulling, weighing, verifying and re-seating is well worth keeping your eyes or fingers the way they are now.
4. Contact the manufacturer and let them know of the issue. Give them whatever information they need (usually lot number on the box, caliber, etc.). I'd tell them you want replacement boxes for all you have that were bought at the same time and see what they say. 99.9999999% of the time the manufacturer will take this very seriously and work with you to A) make you happy and B) figure out what happened on their end as far as QC goes.

To answer your other question, yes, if you have the wrong powder charge with the wrong projectile weight, you could have a very, very, very bad day when the trigger is pulled.
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Old December 10, 2012, 02:56 PM   #3
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I read where Remington has a few boxes of 38 spcl out there with .357 mags in the box, that could be interesting.

I used to buy 44 mag reloads from the same dealer for years then one day there was a miss on my target and then I could not eject that case. Removed the cylinder and pounded it out with a dowel and a rubber hammer only to discover it was a 41 magnum stuck in a box of 44 magnums. I don't buy reloads from anybody anymore and when I open a new box from a manufacturer I pull it out and make a fast inspection of all the head stamps.

I'm to old and to used to having all my fingers and eyeballs to be taking a chance of losing one of them now.
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Old December 10, 2012, 03:56 PM   #4
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The reason the .357 case is longer than the .38 Special case is to prevent accidentally chambering the .357 in a .38 Special gun. So they should only fit in a .357 Magnum revolver and surprise that shooter with the report and recoil.


rajbcpa,

I would line all the bullets up and see if the ones in your caliber are all the same shape and length. If so, they should all be within weight spec unless somebody put tungsten, gold, platinum, or depleted uranium into one. It would have to be something more dense than lead, or it wouldn't be able to be heavier and still fit inside. Highly unlikely. I would still call the bullet maker and let him know what happened. You might get some free bullets out of it.
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Old December 10, 2012, 04:11 PM   #5
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just out of curiosity what caliber and what weight bullet are we talking about. A 9 x 18 in a 9mm luger box might be a issue if you think you might be able to squeeze a .363 bullet into a case made for a 9x 9. If that is a problem use your mike and see what the diameter is. Otherwise I would think any discrepancies would be pretty obvious and easily checked using your scale. I certainly cannot imagine cases weighing outside a grain or 3 of each other, nor do I know of any bullet that comes in 5 grain increments.
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Old December 10, 2012, 04:30 PM   #6
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“but there is no way of knowing if the completed cases have the correct weight bullets; right?”

A disciplined reloader would know if the weight was not correct, the extra weight could be caused by powder and or bullet.

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Old December 10, 2012, 04:31 PM   #7
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OK - Yeh thanks.... all!

Is it easier to line up the unloaded bullets that are left over or just weigh each one? I use a digital scale, so weighing each bullet would go fairly quick. I only have about 50 bullets left.

If none are found that weigh more or less than the stated weight on the box, can I conclude that the 150 loaded rounds are OK?

Somehow, this makes me nervous.

The manufacturor is known for premium quality jacketed bullets. The wrong bullets that came in the package have a different diameter, a different profile (nose) and they look like they are plated not jacketed.

I don't believe this bullet manufacturor makes plated bullets - just jacketed bullets, I believe.

How weird is that?

I have never purchased any of the type of "wrong" bullets that were found in the box (9mm FN) so I know they did not get mixed up with anything that I was doing earlier.
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Old December 10, 2012, 04:41 PM   #8
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The press is new - and I have only loaded one caliber - 40sw since it was set up - about 3-4 weeks ago. The correct bullets that came from the box are jacketed hollow point - 40sw - 155 grain.

the "wrong" bullets that were packed in the box from the factory look like 9mm plated. These are not hollow points, but flat nose and the nose is covered in brass/copper. I doubt if this company makes this type of bullet.

...maybe, I'm not sure....
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:04 PM   #9
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These were "free" premium jacketed hollow point bullets that I got from buying a progressive press and some carbide dies. ...I started with 7 boxes of the same bullets that were mailed to me from the factory at different times. 4 boxes at one time and 3 boxes at another time.

I don't have any receipts but they should know who they mailed free bullets to from their own ad promotion; right? 5 boxes are still unopened...

Should I check on the Net to see what weight bullets these guys make in 40? If they make 125 grain and I'm using 5.6 grains of red dot, I could tell if this load for a 125 grain bullet was within a "good" range, I suppose.

The fact that the 9mm "wrong" bullets don't appear to be made by this manufacturor, however, is very troubling to me.

At this point, I have no idea what "wrong" bullets may have been included in the factory package. ...some are Hornady,,,,, others.... I'm not sure...

..this suks..
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:11 PM   #10
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If the bullets in the already-loaded ammo LOOK the same (from the case mouth to the bullet's nose) then the only real concern is whetheer they are longer inside the case, where you can't see.

But, if they are longer inside the case, then they should weigh enough more than the correct bullets that you should be able to detect the problem by weighing the completed rounds.

So, I don't see any need to pull the bullets that look OK from the outside in the rounds that you have already completed.

However, I would appreciate it if you would post the brand of .40 S&W 155 grain bullets that you purchased.

If there are problems with this manufacturer, it would be helpful for us to know it so that we can be more careful with situations that would be harder to detect, like the .363" bullets in a 9mm box that hounddawg suggested. Or, .338" bullets in a box of 8mm rifle bullets.

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Old December 10, 2012, 05:39 PM   #11
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I guess with enough of a projectile weight difference that you could weigh completed rounds and figure out if any were wrong, but even then it is a stretch.

The differences in weight in brass alone with the same projectile and powder charge to make two identical rounds have significant weight differences when tossed on a scale.

Rule #1 - if you aren't sure, don't take chances.

As far as the issue, call Hornady and talk with Michelle Sass in Customer Service. Tell them honestly what the issue is and they will work with you, of that I have no doubt.
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:41 PM   #12
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I would call them, and let them know. Or at least send them an email. Sounds like there were a couple of 9 mm 124 grain Jacketed flat point rounds that were misplaced in with the others. They may send you some more free bullets, at least you let them know out of concearn, not complaint.
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Old December 10, 2012, 09:06 PM   #13
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I wouldn’t conclude there is no problem just because the remaining 50 are identical. If you have some 180 grain 40S&W or 200 grain 10mm in the mix, then you have a problem.

Have you used brass with one headstamp for your loads? For kicks and giggles a few months ago, I measured the lengths and weighted 20 pieces each of four different 40S&W headstamps, with the following results:

Federal-average weight 66.0 grains, minimum to maximum spread 5.9 grains
Remington-average weight 66.3 grains, minimum to maximum spread 2.2 grains
Blazer-average weight 67.8 grains, minimum to maximum spread 2.1 grains
Winchester-average weight 69.7 grains, minimum to maximum spread 2.1 grains

Since I generally sort by headstamp and batch load using the same headstamp and since I’ve weighted cases and gotten and idea of the average weights, minimum to maximum spread, along with standard deviations (not shown above), I’d feel fairly comfortable that I could see anything which resembled a 25 grain jump in cartridge weight. I’d weigh ‘em, before I’d pull ‘em, but that’s just me. I’d weight the whole batch, separate by weight, pound out the bullet on the heaviest and check if it’s around 155 grains. Might even check the five heaviest. No need to explain what you should do if you find a 180 or 200 grain in the mix.

I’d be comfortable doing this ONLY because I’ve already developed a simple baseline on these four makes of brass.
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Old December 10, 2012, 10:15 PM   #14
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SL1,

AFAIK, only Hornady had a program giving away 500 free bullets with the purchase of a progressive press, so I would assume these are Hornady part number 40000, the only one I see that fits the description. Very odd of Hornady to have that kind of packaging error.

Rajbcpa,

If they were extra bullets and I got the full 500 of the ones I asked for, I wouldn't sweat it, but I'd still let Hornady know that it happened so they can figure out how. Helping their QC to be better helps all of us who use their products.
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Old December 10, 2012, 11:02 PM   #15
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Some variation is OK. How much have you got?

The diameter is easy enough to check. You should be able to eliminate any 9mm bullets from .40 caliber bullets. I doubt if they would even stay in the case.

Plus or minus 5 grains of bullet weight is not all that much (depending). If you are talking about a 50 grain 22 centerfire round loaded near maximum or minimum on top of a powder that has a narrow range of charge weights, I would worry. If you have 180 grain 30 caliber in a cartridge and powder that has a wide range of charge weights there is less to worry about.

Your bullets in the weight range you have - well that could be a meat math problem.

Weigh your brass. Figure out what the weight variation is there.
Weigh the loaded rounds.
If your powder charge weights are all the same, you should easily find the cartridges with too-light and too-heavy of bullets.

If you loaded near the edges of the performance envelope, it might be worthwhile to pull the bullets. But if you were in mid-range, you could exercise some judgement and discretion. The problem is, the 40 caliber is a high-intensity (high efficiency) cartridge with little "wiggle room" for propellant charge variations (and, by extension, bullet weight variations with a given powder charge).

I would use my judgement. But then, I shoot handguns and mostly magnum cases with charges in the lower end of the power range. (For example, Bullseye or Unique in .357 and 44 mag cases at around 1,000 fps with 158 grain or 240 grain bullets). I am nowhere near the pressures that would result in a (too low) stuck bullet or (too high)over-pressure. If I was using H110 and pushing beyond 1500 fps I would pull them if I couldn't rule out a dangerous load by other means.

Good luck

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Old December 11, 2012, 09:42 AM   #16
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Wow, that is interesting. Could this be the work of a disgruntled employee who didn't get the raise he wanted? I suppose the moral of the story is that the closer to max you're loading the more attention to detail you would want to pay to everything.

This sounds like a good reason to have a digital scale. It also sounds like a good reason to cast or swage your own bullets.
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Old December 11, 2012, 12:29 PM   #17
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oops
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Old December 11, 2012, 12:30 PM   #18
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Different weight, different construction, different caliber? Can you look at them and tell the difference?

What calibers? What construction differences? A different caliber can be dangerous if it gets loaded and somehow chambered if it's too big.
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Old December 11, 2012, 01:12 PM   #19
F. Guffey
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Repeat:

Repeat:


“but there is no way of knowing if the completed cases have the correct weight bullets; right?”

A disciplined reloader would know if the weight was not correct, the extra weight could be caused by powder and or bullet.

F. Guffey

Only on the Internet.

When reloading I do not work with WWHUA, If it does not work, I did it. And, yes, it is possible to, under some conditions, mix bullets, one manufacturer has bins of bullets, something like a courtesy to drop-in customers, they have blemished? bullets. The only way they can sell direct to a customer is charge retail or sell blemished bullets at a discount. I am sure individuals are more careful and not as careless as Home Depot shoppers but anytime bins are used things ‘can’ get scattered.

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Old December 11, 2012, 01:44 PM   #20
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You can weigh each completed round and compare to a known good cartrige.

I do this regularly, particularly if I'm loading ammunition with new brass of all the same kind, there are always tiny variations in weight due to minor inconsistancies in bullets and brass, but if it's the wrong bullet it will probably stick out like a sore thumb, a 5 grain difference would bury the beam scale at one end or the other.
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Old December 11, 2012, 02:42 PM   #21
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It is not unusual to find all sorts of issues with packaged bullets.

A target shooting bud of mine weighs all his Sierra Match king bullets. He said he has run across too many match bullets that were not correct weight, like 168 grain bullets that weighed 150 grains or less. He claims the lead cores were off. I think he may have found 190's in a 168 grain box.

For him, it is not worth the gas money, match fees, and all the rest, to have his score ruined by an off weight bullet.

I have had a fuzzy memory of finding the wrong bullet in a package of match bullets, but overall, I am too lazy to weight sort bullets.
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Old December 12, 2012, 10:39 AM   #22
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Another potential worry for folks who just keep pouring brass, bullets and powder in to their respective bins on progressive presses, without inspecting each individual component?

Would it be possible for a 9mm bullet to end-up in a larger capacity case, UNDER the proper bullet? Probably not a 9mm under a .40 cal in a .40 S&W case, but how about a 10 mm case, or a .45 ACP case, or a .41, .44 or .45 revolver cartridge case?

If that can happen, it will probably raise pressure considerably simply by subtantially reducing powder space.

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Old December 12, 2012, 12:12 PM   #23
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Are you talking about having a powder charge, a 9mm projectile sitting on top of that and then a larger projectile on top of the 9mm?

If so, the odds of that happening without the loader noticing are pretty slim. That would be a colossal screw up.
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Old December 12, 2012, 07:06 PM   #24
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One thing you can do is take photos of the boxes you have to document the lot numbers. You can then take a photo of several of the questionable bullets next to the correct ones. Email the photos the the manufacturer and ask them to tell you what is going on. It sounds like you haven't given the maker a call.
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Old December 14, 2012, 09:51 PM   #25
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weigh the loaded ammo. Brass weight should be close. Powder weight identical. If you have a loaded cartridge that weighs significantly different, then it is a problem. If not, all is well.
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