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Old March 23, 2001, 10:46 PM   #1
David Scott
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What would you do in this situation?

You've just finished dinner in a restaurant, and you and your spouse are walking up to the cashier's counter when a teenaged waiter wraps his arms around you, pinning your arms, and shouts, "Get his gun!" Another teenaged waiter starts tugging at your (legal, with CCW permit) concealed weapon in its IWB holster under your jacket. The girl behind the cash register is screaming into the phone, "There's a man with a gun, get the police here or he's going to kill us all!" Patrons are diving to the floor screaming.

What next?
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Old March 24, 2001, 08:00 AM   #2
jar
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Stand still, relax and attempt an explanation. Should get you a buck or two off the bill.
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Old March 24, 2001, 09:15 AM   #3
Christopher II
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This would just irk me to no end...

I'd like to say that I'd never let someone get that close, but it is a resturant, and I know full well that it could happen...

First, letting the teenage waiter disarm me is not an option to be considered. There's a pretty good chance that he'd shoot me (or someone else) by accident.

So with my right hand, I force my gun back into the holster. Even with your arms pinned to your sides, you should be able to reach behind your hip. Try it sometime.

With my left hand, I seperate out one of the fingers of the guy holding me, and bend it backwards until he lets go.

Okay, now I get my wife and myself back against the wall, close to the entrance so we can make a dash for it if these idiots get any more violent. My wife calls 911 and says that we were jumped by some kids who tried to steal my legally carried pistol, gives the address and our physical descriptions (good to have your side of the story on record.) In the meantime, I try to calmly explain that I have a permit to carry this pistol and that I'm not going to shoot anyone or anything.

Then wait for the police. Hopefully they'll sort things out. Of course, when the cops get there, my pistol is in its holster, and my CCW permit is in my hand.

Oh, I'd make sure the manager of the resturant knows that I'll never be eating there again!

Later,
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Old March 24, 2001, 03:52 PM   #4
jadams951
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It obviously wasn't very well concealed if they all saw it.
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Old March 25, 2001, 08:44 AM   #5
Ken Cook
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Well, ASSUMING that somehow my pistol WAS seen and I was "made" by a pimple faced teenaged waiter, and assuming he DID come up behind me and get a two arm lock on me, I'd hurt him enough to convince him to let go VERY quickly.
Otherwise, my wife might well kill the poor idiot and that would be a shame.

Either way, releasing control of my pistol to ANYONE other than a sworn LEO in the course of carrying out his duty is not an option.
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Old March 25, 2001, 09:23 PM   #6
M1911
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One hand to the gun. Second hand gives the first guy a horsebite, which will cause him to release in short order. Then do a retention technique one the second guy grabbing the holster, which will put him down. At that point, explain to the woman that you have a legal CCW, and ask her to call the police because I want to charge these two idiots with assault and battery.

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Old March 27, 2001, 04:20 PM   #7
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I'd start saying "It's okay - it's legal - look in my wallet - please be safe - where's the manager? - It's okay - it's legal - look in my wallet - please be safe - where's the manager?"

Worse thing to do is let 'em get control of it, but assuming that you're 130 pounds or so, and the two teenagers are 200 pound plus football players, they're gonna get it... So act calm, and hopefully they'll calm down...

Then I'd do my damndest to get 'em fired.

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Old March 28, 2001, 02:11 AM   #8
Redlg155
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The only problem that I seriously saw in this situation is that you allowed someone to get into your "personal" space with out going into a higher mental readiness state. You probably already took a table to the rear of the restaraunt, sat with your back facing the wall so you could observe the room, and then you let your guard down and allowed yourself to get hemmed up by some kid.

But then I understand it is a hypothetical situation. If I were in that situation, I believe that my wife would probably have gassed his ass for grabbing me, and then there would be hell to pay. Next come the lawsuits, one for the restarant, one for the kid, one for the parents for raising such a dumb ass kid, and heck, even some more lawsuits just to be a pain. Of course then I would file for battery for the idiot grabbing me.

Hmmmm..I've never owned a restaraunt chain..I wonder. At the least I could swing a deal for free buffet for me and my guests any time I wish for the rest of my life..lol

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Old March 28, 2001, 09:04 AM   #9
Double Naught Spy
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When it is all said and done, you sue the waiters and the business for assault, kidnapping, attempted robbery, and whatever else you can think of, plus you get lunch for free.
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Old March 28, 2001, 01:14 PM   #10
ckurts
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I'd try my best keep the weapon away from unauthorized people whatever it took. I'm not saying that at 51 years old I could outfight any teenager around, but I'm not in completely decrepit condition, weigh well over 200 and have done some martial arts, self defense, and boxing in my time.
In any case, from what I've seen of a lot teenagers these days I'd have at least an even chance and the classic "bear hug" that David describes is not all that difficult to break. I'd be low-kicking and instep stomping the heck out of the guy trying to reach the weapon in the IWB rig(which I don't use BTW; prefer pager pal or pocket carry).

With all of the bravado out of the way: I'd expect that I'd be the one who got sued in this day and age no matter what. I'd also expect to see a article in the Metro section of the Chronicle with the title "Concealed Handgun Licensee Charged with Assault on Teens", and my name in it, unfortunately.

Finally- I don't think you'd see this happen. Few adults or teens these days would have the huevos (as we used to say in Brewster County). I do believe you might find yourself surrounded by, guns drawn (or tackled by) H.P.D., Pct. constables, or Harris Cty. sheriffs deputies as you walked out.
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Old March 28, 2001, 03:31 PM   #11
Coronach
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Heck. I'm a LEO and carry off-duty. This scenario is as applicable to me as it is to anyone else.

Someone would be getting their ass hosed down with mace and cuffed out of this, I assure you.

Mike
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Old March 28, 2001, 04:21 PM   #12
David Scott
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Some interesting repsonses.

The assumption is that you somehow exposed your weapon without knowing you did it. Jacket hung up on the chair back, or whatever. Some folks had a good point, that you can avoid this scenario by (A) taking care not to expose the wepaon, and (B) watching your back even in a restaurant.

If it did happen, though, I think my own reaction would be to stomp on the foot of the one holding me, then fall backwards with all 205 pounds. Once on the ground, I would roll over and lay on top of the gun, shouting that I have a permit and somebody please help, call the police, they're attacking me. I would NOT under any circumstances attempt to draw the weapon myself, though I would get my hand over it and push it down into the holster.

My wife would have enough sense not to draw her own weapon unless one of the waiters got hold of mine. In that case, she ought to get her back to a wall so she can't be attacked, draw, and order the waiter to put the weapon down and back away from it. She also should beshouting that we have permits and demanding the police in a loud voice; guilty parties don't ask for cops.

Once the cops arrived, I would press assault charges against the two who actually touched my person, and insist the cops investigate to see if it was done on instructions from management. If so, there would be a lawsuit against the owners for incitement to an assault, public humiliation, emotional distress, and the physical pain and suffering of having two strong young men half my age batter me around. I'd complain in front of witnesses about anything that might be considered a physical injury. I would let them know that the press would be hearing about how their establishment assaults customers.

Finally, I would return to the table where I ate, pick up the tip and put it back in my pocket. Then I would ask them what I owe for the dinner, and insist on paying for it, because accepting a free meal or apologies might imply that I considered the matter setlled.
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Old March 28, 2001, 09:02 PM   #13
LASur5r
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Restaurant

Boy, you guys hang out in tough restaurants.

That'd be the last time I'd ever go that McD@n@ld's.

Grab my gun and scream like a stuck hog! Talk calmly about suing the stuffing out of everyone involved as you resist the gun grab. Talk calmly to wife to call the cavalry and explain the situation calmly. Want to get that on record, then wait for the cavalry to sort it out.

Then like some of you guys hinted...HMMMM! Never owned a restaurant before (from the lawsuit you are about to slap on everyone.)
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Old March 29, 2001, 11:12 PM   #14
Glamdring
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So am I being held in a front or rear bear hug/hold? Not a very effective way to pin arms. Since to keep me from drawing a weapon the hold would need to control both forearms.

IMHO even if spotted I doubt one would be attacked in this fashion. And I really doubt you would get much of a response from the other patrons. Even if people heard, understood, & comprehended what was going on they would be more likely to freeze than do anything.

Most people are not used to dealing with any type of crisis, from what I have seen when someone is injured or has a heart attack or whatever most people simply gawk or pretend nothing is happening. Unless there happens to be a nurse, EMT, LEO, or such on hand to take control. Most people don't have a prepared response to these types of situations so they have a hard time doing anything.
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Old March 30, 2001, 09:27 AM   #15
Mike in VA
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Dumb kids do dumb things -

Bear hug from behind, eh? I'd bend over sharply as I threw my arms out forward, then move hips to one side as I slammed fist into crotch of dummy trying to retrain me, pushing off other dummy (I carry in a shoulder rig), turn and put him on the deck if he wasn't already there, yelling the whole time that I have a carry permit and get yer effing hands offa me. Hopefully wife would be calling for the constabulary and manager. Would liely press charges for assault and consider civil suit against the restraunt.

Of course in VA, it wouldn't be much of a restraunt, as youi can't CCW in anyplace that serves alcohol. M2
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