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Old December 3, 2012, 08:21 AM   #1
andyman1989
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bad powder or bad primers?

I have been reloading for 4 years now. I have reloaded 10,000 rounds and I have never had this happen before. Recently I bought some WC 844 pulldown powder. I worked up some test loads for 223 with a 62gr bullet. I started at 20 grains and went up to 24 grains in 1 gr increments. I shot them yesterday much to my dismay they sounded like a 22lr, upon examining the barrel I noticed unburnt powder laying in there and the chamber. My action didn't cycle and the next round wouldn't go into battery until I cleaned the chamber and barrel. Enough of the powder was burning to send the round downrange. I have shot reloads from the same batch of primers without any problems. Would bad powder do this?
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:31 AM   #2
grumpa72
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Why not try a new batch and brand of primers first? Short of doing a chemical analysis of the powder, you would only be guessing. New primers will solve the question.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:42 AM   #3
steve4102
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What brand of primers? I have read of similar issues using WC and Tula primers.
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Old December 3, 2012, 09:03 AM   #4
andyman1989
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They are CCI primers.
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Old December 3, 2012, 09:05 AM   #5
andyman1989
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I have some Winchester and some CCI small rifle magnum primers. I'm going to give them a try.
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Old December 3, 2012, 11:54 AM   #6
serf 'rett
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This
Quote:
Recently I bought some WC 844 pulldown powder.
and this
Quote:
I have shot reloads from the same batch of primers without any problems. Would bad powder do this?
Simple process of elimination points toward the powder first.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Recently I bought some WC 844 pulldown powder.
There is risk in buying powder that the military decided was so old that it had to be scrapped.

You really don't know what is in the jug, ball powders can be mixed together and how the heck would you know?

In cold weather ball powders require a magnum level primer and they require a strong firing pin strike. The mainspring in a M586 I bought was absolutely worn and I got squibs and hangfires in cold weather with a ball powder. I changed to a new mainspring and the problem went away.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:35 PM   #8
m&p45acp10+1
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What kind of media are you using to clean the brass?

Possible that there was some media stuck in the flash hole, not enough to completely block things. Just enough to keep it from fully igniting. I have had it happen once before with a single round that had a piece of dirt clod in it that the tumbler missed. The decapping pin jut broke the through the middle is my guess it was not big. It caused the same problem for me that you described.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:51 PM   #9
Marco Califo
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I think it is neither. I use 844 I got from Wideners, and have used CCI #41 and Win SR. These are all quality components, so I think you have something else going wrong.
Your symptoms could describe mistakenly packed WC872, but not real 844.
Storage conditions and contaminants come to mind next.
Your load does sound very light. I would keep working up. I have used as much as 28 grns with 55 grn bullets, and 26 with 75's. Just watch for pressure signs.
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Old December 3, 2012, 11:14 PM   #10
andyman1989
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It is the powder. I loaded up rounds with 4 differen primers win,CCI, CCI magnum,and remington 6.5. I upped the load to a 5.56 load 27 grains wc 844. Only difference was the round did eject but the next round would still jam on the unburnt powder in the chamber and it still felt like a 22lr. I also loaded up some of my normal loads with the same primers as earlier mentioned 24.5 gr 4895 and a 62 gr .bullet. they functioned flawlessly as they normally do. As I said I have never had anything like this happen before in 10000+ rounds and it puzzled me.

I got a hold of the store that sold the powder and they will give me a refund.
Thanks for all your advice.
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Old December 4, 2012, 04:26 PM   #11
andyman1989
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I took the powder back. Turns out it was a misslabled batch of wc846.
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Old December 4, 2012, 11:19 PM   #12
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A poster on another board who worked in an ammo factory and had a lot of experience had a similar problem with .223. His answer was to crimp (FCD) or change to a magnum primer and then the powder burned more completely giving normal results.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:05 PM   #13
Slamfire
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Quote:
I took the powder back. Turns out it was a misslabled batch of wc846.
Lucky it was not mis labled pistol powder !

Or maybe not, if it was, I could have added your blow up pictures to the series of rifles blown up using pistol powders:

257 Weatherby action blown after using Blue Dot





AR15 blown with pistol powder
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:41 PM   #14
andyman1989
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I have always crimped my reloads. The correct wc844 works great I shot them today.
23 gr powder 62 gr ss109s. No problems at all.
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
I took the powder back. Turns out it was a mislabeled batch of wc846
Cough..Gasp...divide by zero error.

I hope your supplier realizes how serious of an error this actually is.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:35 AM   #16
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Man-ah-live! Your reloading Angel was on duty that day. Oh! I'm sorry. You asked for smokeless powder...not black powder...and you're sure about that? Black...rifle..pistol, hhmmm, lets see here...give'um this one, that should do it.
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Old December 6, 2012, 06:30 AM   #17
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I would avoid that supplier. Picture a powder mistake the other way around in a 7mm Mag!
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:02 AM   #18
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Wow.

I puckered up after reading about the mislabeled powder. If you don't mind my asking, who did you buy it from? I am glad they fixed the situation for you, but I want to avoid buying from them. I have my doubts that my reloading Angel will be sober enough that day to shield me....
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Old December 6, 2012, 07:37 PM   #19
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Tarnation
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Old December 8, 2012, 03:15 PM   #20
Marco Califo
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Quote:
I took the powder back. Turns out it was a misslabled batch of wc846.
I believe the powder was mislabled, but, I do not think it was WC846. 844 and 846 can be loaded for the same cartridges and bullet loads. For 223 55 gr Sierra bullets gives the SAME load range by weight from 26 to 27.5 of EITHER powder will be fine:

BLC-(2) 26.0 26.7 27.4 28.1

H335 23.0 23.9 24.8 25.7 26.6 27.5

Therefore, if it was 846 it would still shoot well. 846 is also MORE expensive than 844. What I really suspect is that someone [and the big question is WHO - tell us!], mislabled a MUCH cheaper and slower powder like WC867 or WC872.
Although unscrupulous, and criminal, this act would not blow up guns.
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Old December 8, 2012, 06:16 PM   #21
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Whoever sold this stuff needs to have their manberries forcibly kicked so far up that they land on his head after wrapping around his back.

Post after post of complete exasperation from the audience here is but a fraction of the number of handloaders who would cringe out loud if/when they read this story.

Completely and utterly ridiculous and they have no business, none whatsoever dealing components in this industry.
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