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Old December 3, 2012, 10:20 PM   #1
bhcarl
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fixed sight question

I have been looking at a nice used s&w mod. 65 with fixed sights. If a person was to use 38 spl. 158gr. loads, how would the point of impact change with same sight picture? thanks
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Old December 4, 2012, 09:00 AM   #2
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The S&W fixed sight revolver were designed to shoot 158 gr. bullets.

All else being the same, lighter bullets would shoot low, heavier bullets will shoot high.

I shoot both 150 & 158 gr bullets in my M-64 and the truth being told, I can't shoot good enough to tell the difference.
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Old December 4, 2012, 02:10 PM   #3
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Dan Wesson, fixed sights, 4" barrel.

The target on the top is 125 gr UMC ,357 mag. I held at 6 0'clock on the bullseye at 15 yards.

The target on the bottom is 158 gr Magtech .357 mag. I had to hold at 6 o'clock near the bottom of the paper to keep the group near the center of the target otherwise I would have been over the top of the paper.

Try it and see, your gun will tell you what load it prefers. I used my 158 gr loads for deer hunting because I am in and around the center of an 8 inch diameter 100 yard bullseye with a center hold on the target. Under 50 yards I need to shoot way low or shoot 125 grain. 357 or 38 spcl, makes no difference, the lighter bullet will shoot lower.
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Old December 4, 2012, 02:56 PM   #4
Whirlwind06
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If you are asking if 158 grain .38s have a different point of impact then the 158 grain .357s.

No they don't, at least not in my experience with my Ruger 357s.
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Old December 4, 2012, 03:28 PM   #5
bhcarl
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Thats what i was looking for, i was wanting to know if the 158 gr. 38 spl. would shoot to the same point as the 158 gr. 357, so either of the 158 gr. loads should shoot to the same point with the same sight picture. thanks
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:18 AM   #6
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If you reload, experiment and develop a custom load for your revolver.

I a 146 grain load over 30 years ago and have never adjusted the sites.

I developed a 148 grain semiwad 38 spl load which hits in the simulates the trajectory of the magnum load at 25 yds. Use them for practice.
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Old December 6, 2012, 11:38 AM   #7
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Apologizing for side stepping the question.
Fixed sight revolvers are best suited for defensive shooting. As such, they would be used a close range and the shooter would likely be better off rapidly "point shooting", "instinct" shooting than to try and line up the sights precisely. Therefore, at those ranges and circumstances, the difference in impact between the loads do not make much difference. Anywhere on the paper target is good.
For other purposes (than defensive shooting), adjustable sights are a great advantage and the question becomes more relevant. That is why many of us own several of each...some with, some without.
Please forgive me for stating the obvious.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:09 PM   #8
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I bought a new Model 22, four or five years ago, and it printed - with my handload of choice - a foot low and six inches right, at twenty-five yards. After filing the sight on top and one side, it was dead-on . . . with my load . . . with me doing the shooting . . . at 25 yards.
Change the shooter, the load, or the distance, and it won't print the same.
When the "modern" double action revolver was invented, 120 years ago, most calibers had a single load, so it wasn't such a big deal to have fixed sights; all .38 Spl. loads were 158 @750. Today, you either have to have adjustable sights, find the load that matches you and your sights, or get out the file.
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Old December 7, 2012, 02:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Today, you either have to have adjustable sights, find the load that matches you and your sights, or get out the file.
For some purposes including completion and hunting, plinking. However, for self-defense, 25 yards is way to far away. FBI says average shooting has been 7 yards, so put your fixed-sight practice target at 7 yards and see where the bullets are going. Unless the barrel is bent, you will be hitting a 8.5x11 inch target. How are you going to explain in court that your life was in danger with an assailant 25 yards (75 feet way)? Fixed sights are for defensive revolvers in defensive situations. That is why they call fixed sighted two-inch barrel guns, "Belly Guns".
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Old December 7, 2012, 03:01 PM   #10
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dahermit said:

Quote:
How are you going to explain in court that your life was in danger with an assailant 25 yards (75 feet way)?
Because he had a shotgun? Or a rifle? Or was shooting at me?

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Old December 7, 2012, 06:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Quote:
How are you going to explain in court that your life was in danger with an assailant 25 yards (75 feet way)?
Quote:
Because he had a shotgun? Or a rifle? Or was shooting at me?
Nevertheless, FBI statistics indicate any gunfight (self-protection included) is most likely to happen at seven yards, not 25. Therefore, for defense, one does not require adjustable sights. He/she may however believe they do despite the statistics and the reality of the distances involved in shootings. Or even, just like their looks...I am willing to admit that I would rather buy a snubby with adjustable sights than one without for aesthetic not functional reasons.
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Old December 7, 2012, 07:50 PM   #12
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So you are saying you will not be in danger and must not defend yourself till the attacker gets within a court or FBI approved distance?

You wait, the rest of us will Do what we have to do when we have to do it. If you are unable to hit anything beyond 10' you will have to find cooperative boogermen.
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Old December 7, 2012, 09:57 PM   #13
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The Model 65 was designed for .357 mag ammo.

If you shoot .38 spec. the impact point will be different than what the Factory regulated the sights for.

However - at short ranges ( 10 -20 yds ) it's not really
going to make a big difference for self defense use.

.
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Fixed sights are for defensive revolvers in defensive situations. That is why they call fixed sighted two-inch barrel guns, "Belly Guns".
This crap is the reason that you have to weed through newly manufactured snubs to find one that's properly regulated.
The only reason they're called belly guns is it makes it easier for lazy folks to not learn how to shoot.
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:55 PM   #15
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What if the bad guy doesn't read the FBI reports?
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Old December 7, 2012, 11:02 PM   #16
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Does the FBI report gunfights or shootings?

In my neck of the woods, many shootings occur at distances of fifty feet or more.

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Old December 7, 2012, 11:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
The Model 65 was designed for .357 mag ammo.

If you shoot .38 spec. the impact point will be different than what the Factory regulated the sights for.
Not quite, my gun shoots the same weight bullet at 25 yards pretty much to the same point of impact with special or magnum loads. If I need to change the point of impact I change bullet weights. I have in my little bag of tricks 125 gr, 158 gr and 180 gr and each of the 125 and 158 gr bullets print according to their weight. My 180 gr only comes in magnum so I can't say on that one.
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