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Old December 2, 2012, 08:35 PM   #1
Metal god
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Long range scope suggestions / $800 to $1,200 budget

Hey guys just bought a new Savage and I'm looking for some glass . I will be shooting 600 to 800 yards with this rifle . This will be primarily for target shooting . Budget is 8 to 12 hundred dollars

Things that are a must :

Mil Dot reticle

adjustable magnification x16 or more

Front/forward focal plain

Good eye relief min 3.5"

Great warranty

This is the scope I have my eye on right now http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/6-0919809

I may shoot competition some day so if there are any scopes not aloud in most comp do not recommend .

Thanks Metal
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:04 PM   #2
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At the top end of your price range you'd be hard pressed to beat the Super Sniper 5x20, and for a paper puncher I'd honestly look at something fixed power like the Super Sniper 10x which is an amazing scope. But based on the criteria you've established, I'd look at the Vortex Viper PST 4x16.
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:12 PM   #3
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Did you know that the scope you've linked to, Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M1 6.5-20x50, is not a FF scope? This is the FF version is that scope - Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 ER/T 30mm

If you're trying to stay in that sub $1200 range and get FF and that much, or more mag, the previously mentioned Vortex Viper and the Bushnell "Elite Tactical" model are available. You can find a listing here. Note that there are FF and SF scopes in this range, but SWFA lists this variance in the feature list.

For target shooting at known ranges... there is no advantage to having a FF scope.
I prefer FFP for most all uses but known range, competitive target shooting where the ability to split hairs is critical. There are benefits to both in their own best environments... so pick your scope based on intended use.

With a FFP, the subtention is accurate at all magnification settings. For many, this is preferred because no matter what the magnification, you have accurate holdover and windage reference, the ranging is still fully functional without adjustment, and... unlike the SFP, no potential exists for the reticle to alter POI as magnification changes.

Cheers,
C
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:15 PM   #4
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Skip on the pst 4x16 for targets. Go more power. Skip on illuminated reticule.
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:24 PM   #5
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In that price range, I'd look at Ziess.
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:35 PM   #6
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I have a few scopes with FFP,and really prefer shooting with a SFP scope. I find the FFP serves no great advantage with my shooting,and would rather have the reticle remain the same when cranking up the magnification,and not growing in size like the FFP does.
I also prefer a MOA/MOA reticle/turret system over a MIL/MIL,it's just easier for me to calculate in my head.
I like Nightforce scopes,but they are pricey. I really like the Sightron SIII scopes,and have 5 of them.For the price,they are hard to beat.They have great glass,excellent tracking and repeatability,keep zero perfectly,plenty of adjustment range,and have a great lifetime warranty.

For the money,you get a great long range optic that will not give up much to the the bigger priced scopes.
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:47 PM   #7
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I don't think you would go wrong with Vortex, their customer service is excellent. You might also look into the Sightron SI III 8-32 scopes. They are very nice scopes and give you a lot of scope at the lower end of your price range.
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Old December 2, 2012, 10:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Skip on the pst 4x16 for targets. Go more power. Skip on illuminated reticule
The aforementioned Vortex does not have an illuminated reticle, and IMO 16x is already a lot more power than needed for shooting at the ranges indicated by the OP. I'd sacrifice some power for other features such as mil/mil adjustments, FFP for shooting at unknown ranges, and a 30mm tube which will give you more internal adjustment for shooting at longer distances.
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Old December 2, 2012, 10:28 PM   #9
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Creeper thanks for the heads up on the FF issue on the scope I was looking at . I thought it was . As for shooting at known ranges . That will not always be the case . What we like to do is one guy go out and set a target up at a unknown distance to the shooter . It is then up to the shooter to hit it with a little help from a spotter calling wind and what not . Thats also why I want the FF scope . I want to be able to figure out the distance no matter what magnification Im on .

I do want a Mil Dot reticle with 1/8 or 1/4 MOA adjustments Its what I learnd with so Im more comfortable with that set up . I guess It would not be a deal breaker if I had to learn a new way to do range estimation .

Im liking this scope http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-v...iflescope.html
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Last edited by Metal god; December 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old December 2, 2012, 10:37 PM   #10
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If target shooting 600 to 800 yards- I have to ask--Why mil dot?. I shoot 600 to 1000 yards with a 8-32 x 56 Sightron. Get one with fine crosshairs and you are set. Tracking is dead on , no need for mil dots. Extra junk to clutter a scope
Vortex are great scopes but for the same amount of money you could get into a Sightron 8-32 x 56. More magnification, You get out to 600 yards and more,you will wish you had more than 24 power.
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Old December 2, 2012, 10:49 PM   #11
Metal god
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Quote:
If target shooting 600 to 800 yards- I have to ask--Why mil dot?.
For range estimation . I do not always know the range to target . I also like using the mil dot I have now on another gun . Zeroed at 100yds and hold at 1 mil and Im dead on at 300 . I tryed a BDC but with out the perfect load it seemed like the lines were just in the way to me . Like I said before , It's just what Im used too . I've got notes and what not to help me out with alot of things that will transfer over to the new rig .
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Old December 2, 2012, 11:07 PM   #12
scsov509
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Quote:
I do want a Mil Dot reticle with 1/8 or 1/4 MOA adjustments Its what I learnd with so Im more comfortable with that set up . I guess It would not be a deal breaker if I had to learn a new way to do range estimation .
Mil/Mil is awesome if you like shooting a mildot, because having your adjustments match your reticle just makes exponentially more sense. It's especially nice for dialing up adjustments and calling your own shots because you don't have to do any math to make adjustments that you see through your reticle, you just watch what you see and adjust accordingly. I held off getting away from MOA adjustments for a long time, but after I made the switch I really wished I'd made it sooner.
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Old December 2, 2012, 11:21 PM   #13
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For another consideration, if you want a mildot with MOA adjustments, I'd look at the Burris XTR 4x16 or 6x24. It's another optic with a 30mm tube and side focus adjustment, and I've been really impressed with the 4x16 we mounted on a friend's rifle. Not sure I like it more than the Vortex necessarily, but it's another worth considering. Be sure to leave room in your budget for a decent set of rings and bases as well, you don't want to spend good money on a scope and skimp out there.
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Old December 2, 2012, 11:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal God
What we like to do is one guy go out and set a target up at a unknown distance to the shooter . It is then up to the shooter to hit it with a little help from a spotter calling wind and what not. Thats also why I want the FF scope . I want to be able to figure out the distance no matter what magnification Im on.
Copy that... I've played that game myself. I'd probably go for a FFP too. You can still range with a SFP on mags other than the "specified" mag, it just takes some familiarization and practice with the particular scope... and maybe a dope card or dope app if you're a fancy smart phone guy.
As long as you understand that the reticle you're interested in is not very precise, or should I say not as precise as the "fine crosshair" 4runnerman mentioned... or a high end 1/16th MOA dot/cross.

Ah well, with scopes, you can't have all your favorite eggs in one basket, so you get what will offer you most benefit.

Cheers,
C
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Old December 2, 2012, 11:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
The aforementioned Vortex does not have an illuminated reticle, and IMO 16x is already a lot more power than needed for shooting at the ranges indicated by the OP. I'd sacrifice some power for other features such as mil/mil adjustments, FFP for shooting at unknown ranges, and a 30mm tube which will give you more internal adjustment for shooting at longer distances.
The one the OP was looking at has an illuminated reticule. I have a Vortex 4x16 on my elk rifle and will shoot an elk at those distances but a target scope at that range should have more power, keep in mind he did say mainly targets and competing in the future.
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Old December 2, 2012, 11:46 PM   #16
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Not easy

First, considering your stated use. For target work at 600-800 yards only, I prefer a fixed power scope. Somewhere around 24x to 36x. That said, there are plenty available at or below your price range.

As has already been stated, for strictly paper target work at range I see no advantage for a mil dot reticule. Primarily because, unlike a sniper dealing with time available to shoot and wind/moving targets, your paper will sit still and wind/elevation adjustments can be determined without a time worry. Mil dots are great for human sized targets. Very fine X-hairs at 600 yards are helpful with center x ring aiming.

I will qualify these responses with the statement that I have never consistently shot at a paper target at 600-800 yards. I have done it several times by accident. Paper targets for me have occasionally been placed at 400 yards and rarely at 500. Except for the highest power I had on whatever variable power scope I was using, a variable power scope was useless.
Where it was useful was for finding targets, varmints like ground squirrels, with the lower power-wider field of view advantage. Time to shoot starts to become a concern with any live target. Once you find it on low power you can crank it up to whatever you feel comfortable with to take a shot.

Scope power does not always make for a good shot. High scope power allows your eye to see how much your rifle is moving around the target 6-800 yards away.. Once you pull the trigger and the projectile leaves the end of the barrel, everything that has been done for the rifle and the ammunition is done. How much the rifle was off or moving when the shot went off will make the difference between good and not so good..
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Old December 3, 2012, 12:36 AM   #17
Metal god
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Quote:
As has already been stated, for strictly paper target work at range I see no advantage for a mil dot reticule. Primarily because, unlike a sniper dealing with time available to shoot and wind/moving targets, your paper will sit still and wind/elevation adjustments can be determined without a time worry. Mil dots are great for human sized targets. Very fine X-hairs at 600 yards are helpful with center x ring aiming.
I agree for the most part however we do it all . range estimation , timed shots , timed to estimate and take the shot .I have done well estimating the range of targets as small as 30" . The math for that is ( inchs x 27.77 divided by the mils = the yards to target ) We do not have a way to make targets move yet so thats out for now . I say 600 to 800 but really i'll be shooting 100 to 1,000 . The problem for me is Im in San Diego and ther are very few public ( BLM ) places to shoot 1,000 yards that I kind find . They are hours away from me , I wish I could just step out my back door and have a range . Im sure we all do .
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Old December 3, 2012, 01:01 AM   #18
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All of the options available atvortexoptics.com choose your mag., Reticle, tube diameter, objective......
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Old December 3, 2012, 01:39 AM   #19
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So, you want some good glass, eh?

Try one of these on for size...you won't be disappointed, I promise--it's at the upper end of your price range, but well worth the bucks.

http://www.allnightforce.com/product-p/nbr83256.htm

You can actually do some shopping and find some of these cheaper than the price listed here. I have the 8-32x56 NXS on my precision rifle--best scope I've ever owned.

Also, check out Bear Basin Outfitters. They have a 12 month same as cash option. NOTE: You'll need to mount this on a 20 MOA base; otherwise the scope will not have enough elevation adjustment to reach 1000 yards.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:42 AM   #20
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Vortex or Nightforce, pick a price, and buy it anyplace but CTD.
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Old December 3, 2012, 01:10 PM   #21
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Ziess Conquest 6,5-20x50 A/O with #43 (mil-dot) reticle is in your price range. Excellent glass. Crisp image even on 20x. 1/8 clicks w/adjustable knobs. 3 1/2" eye relief, 1" tube.

I have one mounted on my 338-378 brevix. Easy to adjust and good in low light conditions too. Designed as a hunter, but excellent for target.
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Old December 5, 2012, 12:20 AM   #22
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I put a Vortex Viper 4-16x50 mil/mil FFP illuminated reticule on my Savage 10 FCP HS-Precision a little over a year ago and have completely enjoyed it. Mounted it on a 20 MOA base. It was my first FFP & mil/mil optic. Broke it in on a 4 day precision rifle course.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:27 AM   #23
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I just wanted to chime in because I was just in this position-

I bought a Remington 700 SPS Tac "AAC-SD" .308 Tactical/'Sniper' rifle... and i had saved enough to pick almost any reasonable scope I wanted. The Leupold Mark 4's were a little too much for me to be honest, but below that, I had the run.

I settled on most likely a Leupold VX3 (the highest end VX3's, a 4.5-14x50mm Illuminated Boone and Crockett Reticle was the most likely candidate) or a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50mm Rapid Z 800/1000 reticle.. Both were about $1000 give or take.

I wound up comparing the Leupold to a Nikon Monarch side by side at a local gun shop... and let me tell you: I came home and bought a Nikon Monarch 5-20x44mm BDC reticle Side Focus .... at HALF THE PRICE of the other two, *and* i think I might have got a better scope.

The Leupold VX3 was awesome, amazing quality. I was very impressed. Then I tried the Nikon Monarch. And I was like, Is it just me or is it, at the very least same??? And the Monarch was about $500 or so, the VX3 was about $1000. Minimum. The nicer VX3L's (with the wierd recessed bottom for fitting over a barrel) were like $1300... and again, I was not sure I was getting a better scope, at close to triple the price now.



The Nikon Monarch I got is The Truth. I am EXTREMELY impressed. Leupold has been trading on its name for a LONG TIME now, and Zeiss is certainly the flashiest of the 3, but pound for pound there is no doubt in my mind I Did the best I could have.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:01 AM   #24
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For tht price range, the Bushnell Tactical Elite HDMR,Leupold,Mk4, Zeiss, and others. If at all possible add a few hundred and get a NightForce. I am not a huge NF fan but they are great scopes. My own personal pick at that price range would be the Bushnell, I own a couple of them (the Elite & and the HDMR) now and they have quickly became my "goto" scope. I have the Tactical Elite on a 50bmg, and it has stood everything she throws at it.
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Old December 5, 2012, 01:00 PM   #25
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Leupold has been trading on its name for a LONG TIME now
Reason #1 I don't own one. Over priced. But you should be honest and disclose that your Nikon had to be shipped back. I haven't had any problems with my Monarchs though and they have served me well.
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