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Old December 4, 2012, 03:19 PM   #51
Constantine
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I have a Sig P220 Elite Stainless, Kimber Eclispe Target II, S&W 686+ Pro series 5", and HK P30L 9mm, and a Walther PPS. If my life depended on quick & accurate shot placement, I'd go with my plastic HK. I enjoy shooting it

Could it possibly be because you prefer 9mm over .45?
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Old December 4, 2012, 03:32 PM   #52
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If you prove to me that a striker fired gun with a long trigger pull, trigger safety, no barrel bushing, and a short barrel shooting Satan's ammo (40 SW) is more accurate than a 5'' SAO 1911 45 ACP with a trigger job and match barrel, I will GIVE you my Wilson Combat.

Most plastic gun fans have never shot a 1911 or a real revolver.
It seems a little silly to compare a $3,000 custom made gun to a $550 production pistol made from different materials and of a different caliber.

I think the technical word is "polymer"; welcome to the 21st century.
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Old December 4, 2012, 04:44 PM   #53
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Lol I completely missed .40 S&W being called "Satan's ammo"

If I were you I'd avoid my LCP and heavier .357 magnum loads also!

I can barely tell the difference between .40 and the other calibers. It's there, but it's very small. Things get so hyperboled-to-death on forums!

No disrespect intended, I just find that really funny.
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Old December 4, 2012, 05:25 PM   #54
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^^^ Yeah what's up with that? Somethig to do with S&W?
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Old December 4, 2012, 06:05 PM   #55
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Lol I completely missed .40 S&W being called "Satan's ammo"
I just don't see why you'd want to mess with 45 ACP. There's already 38 Super.

But I love my Glock 20.
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Old December 4, 2012, 07:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
I just don't see why you'd want to mess with 45 ACP. There's already 38 Super.

But I love my Glock 20.
Hey, my gun safe is a melting pot. .40, .357 Sig, .45, 9mm, .38 Super, 10mm, all are welcome in my home.

Except .45 GAP. Promising, but you've gotta know a lost cause when you see one
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Old December 4, 2012, 07:27 PM   #57
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Except .45 GAP. Promising, but you've gotta know a lost cause when you see one...
Some folks are still saying that about .40 and 10mm. <grin>

I happen to like .45 GAP, and have found sources of ammo that aren't that much more costly .45 A.C.P. I really like my Glock 38 -- and don't care for the grip size of the fullsize Glock .45.
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Old December 4, 2012, 08:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill View Post
Some folks are still saying that about .40 and 10mm. <grin>

I happen to like .45 GAP, and have found sources of ammo that aren't that much more costly .45 A.C.P. I really like my Glock 38 -- and don't care for the grip size of the fullsize Glock .45.
Hey, if the round survives I'll be happy, I think it was very well-conceived. Just nobody wants to be the guy who bought the Betamax player
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Old December 4, 2012, 09:09 PM   #59
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40 has the capacity and grip size advantage on the 45, 38 super/semi rimmed, oh behave!
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Old December 4, 2012, 09:14 PM   #60
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Not true at all. I've seem S&W, Ruger, and Taurus revolvers jam or malfunction.
Sure, revolvers can jam...but not because of poor grip, magazine issues or a dud cartridge.
Never had a squib load get the bullet stuck in the forcing cone have ya?

Revolvers are not jam proof.
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Old December 4, 2012, 09:16 PM   #61
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Never had a squib load get the bullet stuck in the forcing cone have ya?

Revolvers are not jam proof.
I don't think anyone is calling them jam proof. But I can think of more issues with a semi that can lead to a jam than a revolver.
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Old December 4, 2012, 11:52 PM   #62
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A great many more.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:13 AM   #63
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Never had a squib load get the bullet stuck in the forcing cone have ya?

Revolvers are not jam proof.
I never said that revolvers don't jam. A squib is a squib...a squib can just as easily happen in a semi-auto as a revolver and is just as dangerous.

Like I said before, a revolver is less affected by feed jams or ejection issues. Revolvers are not affected by one's grip. The revolver isn't reliant upon recoil momentum to function properly. A semi-auto's reliability is also dependent upon the good condition of the magazine that is inserted into it...a revolver doesn't have that problem. And a revolver is not affected by reduced size as can happen with the semi-auto.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:41 AM   #64
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You cannot seriously blame any type of gun if you loaded a squib into it.
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:11 AM   #65
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Dogtown tom evidently does.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:23 AM   #66
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Could it possibly be because you prefer 9mm over .45?
I actually like the "torque" feel of a .45 best, and I thought 9mm felt a little boring at first. I think it has more to do with really liking the gun. Then again, other plastic 9mms I've shot didn't seem to have any character to me. I like all my guns, and on any given day, I will prefer one over the other, but usually it's between my HK and my SIG. My reasoning for preference is unquantifiable.
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:29 AM   #67
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In a polymer bottom gun the balance is acceptable at the beginning of a full magazine but as you use rounds the balance changes very rapidly to - top heavy. The more mass on top - the more the gun will rock in your hand. The same thing happens with an all steel gun but to a MUCH lesser degree.
Time-to-reload indicator?
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:41 AM   #68
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Quote"As an inquisitive soul, John Browning, if he were still involved in firearms design and manufactiring, would probabally hold several patents that had to do with 'plastic' guns. He was inventive."
Conversely had Gaston Glock been a master gunsmith instead of a plastics chemist maybe....(please don't tell me)
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Old December 5, 2012, 12:24 PM   #69
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Most plastic gun fans have never shot a 1911 or a real revolver.
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Must be one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on these forums.
I have to agree with the second quote. I have a G20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 and like them very much for their durability, capacity, reliability, and light weight. I also have 2 Springfield 1911s, a Mil-Spec and a Range Officer and I like them for their classic design and great feel. Further, I also have a SA Cavalry (7.5" barrel) that rides on my hip when I'm levergunning.

Which is best? Depends upon what I'm doing. For range work and plinking my 1911s are great fun but too heavy and low capacity for CCW or HD consideration. For CASS type shooting, the SA Cav gets the nod. However, for CCW my G23 is always behind my hip and for HD and woods walking my custom G20 longslide is my choice.

A BMW makes a nice road car but it's a terrible choice for hauling dirt where a pickup would be a great choice, however, neither would be a good bet for hauling a collection of kids or for off-roading.

The right tool for the job makes the most sense. Ignore the gun snob telling you that his choice is perfect for everything.
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Old December 5, 2012, 12:30 PM   #70
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In a polymer bottom gun the balance is acceptable at the beginning of a full magazine but as you use rounds the balance changes very rapidly to - top heavy. The more mass on top - the more the gun will rock in your hand. The same thing happens with an all steel gun but to a MUCH lesser degree.
Another 'interesting' comment not addressing the whole truth. The fact is that the most popular polymer pistol, the Glock, produces much less sharp recoil and muzzle flip than a similar weighted steel pistol because of 2 items that the poster ignored.

First, Glock's polymer frame flexes which softens and spreads the recoil impulse while the steel frame doesn't. This reduces both felt recoil and muzzle flip.
Second, Glock's design puts the bore axis much lower than steel framed designs which reduces the muzzle flip because the recoil impulse is more in line with the wrist.

Together, these produce a much lower felt recoil and much less muzzle flip even when down to the final round.
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Old December 5, 2012, 12:54 PM   #71
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Maybe I'm not up to speed, but whats with the 40S&W being called "Satan's Ammo"? Pretty good round in my opinion.
Because as some insist that any self defense round must begin with a "4", others still believe that it must also be followed with a "5"!
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Old December 5, 2012, 03:13 PM   #72
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I actually like the "torque" feel of a .45 best, and I thought 9mm felt a little boring at first. I think it has more to do with really liking the gun. Then again, other plastic 9mms I've shot didn't seem to have any character to me. I like all my guns, and on any given day, I will prefer one over the other, but usually it's between my HK and my SIG. My reasoning for preference is unquantifiable.
Ah..Gotcha. Just wondering. I love the feel of .45 too, that "push".


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other plastic 9mms I've shot didn't seem to have any character to me
Yes! Opened my safe today...Thought I wanted to carry something else other than the SIG 1911 on my hip. So I picked up the Glock 19 I've been having issues with just to feel it. Put it back...Got my PPQ...loaded up a fresh mag. Held the +1 on the side racked the slide to chamber the round (strongly as always) and the PPQ didn't go into battery.

I stared at it dumbfounded like "did this really just happen?" Dropped the mag, emptied the round, and tried again..And it happened again. I put it right back in the safe..I'll deal with that later. It has 300 rounds through it. It functioned flawlessly then. I don't know what it's deal is now.

I remember thinking as I put it back, about this thread and I mumbled to myself.. "Souless jerks"

My SIG P226 and my SIG 1911 XO are my babies. I love them. I feel more attached to them. Anything steel or aluminum. My Gold Cup, 70 Series, SA 1911, High-Power, you name it.


Alright, done rambling.
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Old December 5, 2012, 03:18 PM   #73
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Got my PPQ...loaded up a fresh mag. Held the +1 on the side racked the slide to chamber the round (strongly as always) and the PPQ didn't go into battery.

I stared at it dumbfounded like "did this really just happen?" Dropped the mag, emptied the round, and tried again..And it happened again.
Didn't go into battery or didn't chamber?

You seem to be on quite the roll.
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Old December 5, 2012, 03:24 PM   #74
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Didn't go into battery or didn't chamber?

You seem to be on quite the roll.
It was out of battery* sorry! I had to smack the back of the slide to get it into battery. That's not part of the standard operating procedure in loading a semi-automatic.

Yeah I know..what's happening with my polymer 9mm's...they're dropping like flies. lol
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Old December 5, 2012, 03:32 PM   #75
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It was out of battery* sorry! I had to smack the back of the slide to get it into battery. That's not part of the standard operating procedure in loading a semi-automatic.

Yeah I know..what's happening with my polymer 9mm's...they're dropping like flies. lol
Interesting. I've seen issues where it didn't chamber. IMO, and I realize Fishbed will come attack me in my sleep for saying this, I think the P99/PPQ do have one design flaw: a very steep feed ramp. Now some guns have the same phenomenon, but the nose of the round barely hits the feed ramp at all while chambering so it's really a non-issue. With the P99 and PPQ the round makes a rather steep climb to chamber, and I've seen weaker loaded ammunition or weaker cycling cause issues with this.

If it keeps up you'll have to send it in. Curious if you still send it to S&W or Walther at this point given their contract expiring.
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