The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 19, 2012, 08:51 PM   #26
shawnmt6601
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2012
Posts: 8
hmmm


50BMG is doable. One of my best friends owns a Barrett M82. I didnt think about that. he has a 338 lapua mag as well.


Maybe thats beyond the focus of the testing, but maybe if enough people want to see it, I will do it

going to try out the 6.8 SPC and some 9mm next I think


My personal HD round is the 55 grain barnes TSX bullets as loaded by corbon. Over penetration is not an issue for me. Handgun ammo is 45 ACP corbon DPX 185 gr +P barnes solid copper HPs
shawnmt6601 is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 01:47 AM   #27
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 2,028
50BMG
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 10:24 AM   #28
ak2323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 190
Great link.

I think I'll stick with TAP but it's good to know if you need to shoot someone two rooms away who is hiding behind your Sofa, 855 will do it.
ak2323 is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 11:49 PM   #29
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,427
.50 BMG and .338 mag are getting a little far toward the realm of the imaginary when it comes to home defense.

That said, tests of .30-06 or .308 would be cool though...
Willie Lowman is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 11:44 AM   #30
K1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2011
Posts: 158
For me, a 5.56 is better than for home, self, and camp defense than a shotgun. The ONLY place where a shotgun is better is stopping power, and a 5.56 is no slouch in that department either.
K1500 is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 12:16 PM   #31
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 1,389
I have some 45 gr varmint rounds loaded as a HD mag. Figure light and fast will be more easily stopped, less momentum.
ripnbst is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 02:39 PM   #32
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
Yeah, light, fast varmint rounds are perfect for HD, unless you're running a 1:7 twist. Then I'd stick with 55 gr. bullets, 50 at the lightest; but I'd test them first of course.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 02:48 PM   #33
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
And of course, happy Thanksgiving everyone!
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 09:07 PM   #34
ATW525
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2005
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 2,684
It's an interesting read. I'm especially surprised by the 7.62x39mm. I've seen people advocating this cartridge for increased barrier penetration over 5.45mm and 5.56mm. It seems like it came up short.
ATW525 is offline  
Old November 23, 2012, 10:34 PM   #35
shawnmt6601
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2012
Posts: 8
I dont know why people say you need a heavier bullets for 1/7 twist and light bullets wont shoot as accurate


that is just not true. 1/7 is the most versatile twist for the AR15 and the 556 round

take a look here

http://looserounds.com/2012/06/13/17...myth-debunked/
shawnmt6601 is offline  
Old November 24, 2012, 02:49 AM   #36
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
I wasn't advising 55 gr. bullets or heavier in a 1:7 twist because of accuracy. Very light bullets in a 1:7 twist rifle can end up spinning so fast that the jacket completely shreds off the bullet due to centrifugal force. Sometimes it looks like a weird flash in front of your muzzle, but the way to tell for sure that the bullet came apart in mid-air is by the odd holes in the target.

An over-stabilized bullet can have issues at longer ranges. Sure, an over-stabilized bullet is a heck of a lot better than an under-stabilized one, but at longer ranges a 50 gr. bullet is going to work better in a 1:8 or 1:9 rifle than in a 1:7.

At home-defense ranges over-stabilization is isn't an issue, but the jacket separating in mid-air due to the bullet spinning too fast can be a problem. That's why I advised that if you have a 1:7 barrel you should test any home defense load that has a bullet 50 gr. and below, because jacket separation has been know to happen in 1:7 rifles using those bullets.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 09:21 PM   #37
shawnmt6601
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2012
Posts: 8
In 20 years of shooting

I have never seen a light weight bullet jacket from a light weight bullet come apart from a 1/7 twist


its a 556 not a 22-250 or 220 swift


the over stabilization/ jacket destruction is a myth in the 223/556
shawnmt6601 is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 04:37 AM   #38
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
It's definitely not a myth; jacket separation happens. Does it happen every time you shoot light loads in a 1:7? Of course not; but it still happens, and the best way to avoid it happening is to use bullets of an appropriate weight. Also, over-stabilization effects accuracy, especially at longer ranges. Is it as bad as an under-stabilized bullet? No. You might not even notice the difference at shorter ranges. But shooting very light bullets in a 1:7 is not ideal.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 11:06 AM   #39
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 774
Agree. I know of at least one rifle, a 1:7 16" barrel AR-15 that can not shoot 45 grain ammo. The bullets fall apart at about 30 yards. M-193 55 grain is OK, but that particular gun is most accurate with 60+ grain projectiles.
btmj is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 07:07 PM   #40
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 2,028
This is a thread I found about bullet disitegration in mid flight
http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...?t-481986.html
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 07:10 PM   #41
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,686
Quote:
It's definitely not a myth; jacket separation happens. Does it happen every time you shoot light loads in a 1:7?
What are you calling a "light" load? I have seen this argument used to suggest 55gr is a bad choice for 1:7 twists but in tens of thousands of rounds downrange, I've never seen any 55gr come apart due to twist rate. I've read people report problems with 36gr varmint grenades, which are really questionable for defense or large mammals.

It seems to me that any round that has a realistic probability of spinning apart in a 1:7 .223 is probably not a good choice for self-defense out of any twist rate.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 09:09 PM   #42
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
I'm talking about 45 grain and lower. I'd worry about 50 grain coming apart also, but I admit I've never seen it happen. 55 grain is fine in a 1:7 but you will generally be more accurate at longer ranges with a 1:8 or 1:9 using those bullets.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 09:43 PM   #43
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,686
I'd argue that the irregular nature of the jacket on most 55gr ammo (99% of it being cheap blasting ammo) plays a bigger role in accuracy differences than the weight. On the other hand Hornady 55gr TAP and Training ammo has been great out of 1:7 and 1:8 barrels for me.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 10:05 PM   #44
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 2,028
It's my understanding you only notice the over stabilization of bullets at the longer ranges of that particular bullet . If a bullet is spinning to fast as it starts slowing down the tip wants to stay up and not point down in the same plain the bullet is traveling or in the same angle as the bullets arc . I just happen to be talking about this with a friend the other day that knows more about this stuff then I do . It seemed to make sense to me .

Check out the recommended twist rates for the berger match bullets . I was a little surprised
http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/target-bullets/
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09253 seconds with 9 queries