The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 15, 2012, 09:06 AM   #1
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Parkerize vs. Duracoat

I have an 870 Express that needs refinishing. I want to parkerize it but have also wondered about Duracoat. Which is more durable? If oil is kept on parkerized guns, is there any reason not to go with it?

I will most likely have a gunsmith do the work, so i dont have to consider any diy related benefits.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 15, 2012, 11:18 AM   #2
alex0535
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 773
I think that parkerizing is considered a first step before duracoat is applied. It makes it a lot more permanent if i recall correctly. At least on all the ferrous parts.
alex0535 is offline  
Old November 15, 2012, 12:47 PM   #3
triggerman770
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2009
Location: Metro Atlanta Area
Posts: 124
parkerize vs dura coat

if you look at the GI guns from ww2 & Korea you will see that they were parkerized and that usually did it. I've had a few that were 60+ yrs old with no rust.
__________________
Small Arms Restoration, Inc.
" I started with nothing and Still have most of it left thanx to the federal gov't"
triggerman770 is offline  
Old November 15, 2012, 01:31 PM   #4
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
it has the original finish which has somewhat of a texture so it is probably ready for Duracoat if i went that route but i like the idea of the metal being treated (as in parkerizing) versus a coating because i dont want it to be able to chip. I dont know much about duracoat but often, a spray on product is a easier/cheaper route to the best way but i dont know if that applies in this case or not.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 15, 2012, 02:11 PM   #5
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 313
Do both park first and dura last
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-866-217-5990
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 12:57 AM   #6
Mac's!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2001
Posts: 129
Parkerizing by itself is nothing more than a very thin layer of crystalized material. If you looked at it under a microscope, it would look similar to a sponge but with sharp edges. It has no durabilty by itself. It get's it's durabilty because like a sponge, it will absorb liquids and hold those liquids in the "pores". The idea behind Parkerizing is for it to be submerged in oil while it's still "fresh". Some prefer hot oil, others cold oil. Once that oil is in the "pores", it's pretty difficult to get it all out again. (See note below)

The reason that many firearms refinishers prefer to use Parkerizing under the coating, is because the "pores" will absorb the coating too. It gives a much better bond to the top finish. If Parkerizing earns a #7 and a quality resin coating earns a #7, the two together earn a #20.

NOTE: Once the "pores" have been saturated with oil, it's almost impossible to get it all out. This is why quality refinishers will refuse to apply any type of coating over "old" Parkerizing. No matter how well it's cleaned, the risk of contaminating the new finish is to high.

There are two types of Parkerizing used on firearms: Zinc based and Magnesium based. Magnesium based results in finer "pores" and a darker color. Zinc based results in coarser "pores" and a lighter color. Most of the old military stuff was Zinc based. I'm not sure of the exact reason but maybe because of the coarser "pores" holding the oil better or more oil? We use the Zinc based Parkerizing under the resin because of the coarser "pores". It soaks up the resin much better.

Now, a few words about coatings: "Bullet proof, will never wear, just spray it on and it's done, it'll last forever no matter what you do to or with the gun, etc" is all B.S. !! I have been applying firearms finishes for 35 years and there is no finish that will not show some type of wear eventually. My favorite statement is: "Just degrease it and spray it on". Your firearms are expensive! If you're going to pay somebody to apply a new finish to them, ask first what you're getting. Will the internals be coated too? Is it rustproof? Says who? This MilSpec rating...what's it for? Will you warranty it? Parkerizing by itself is pretty hard to mess up as long as the solution is seasoned and the prep work is good but: If you're getting a coating applied over that, ask questions!! Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
Mac's! is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 08:37 AM   #7
Saltydog235
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2010
Location: Pawleys Island
Posts: 1,077


I "built" or assembled this gun last winter. It has been shot a good bit and been my exclusive hunting rifle since our seasons started on September 1. I have hunted an average of 4 times a week since. Dragging it up and down metal stands and riding the 4 wheeler. I haven't abused it, I don't do that to my guns, but I haven't babied it either.

The Duracoat is wearing just fine. There are some scratches and dings in the finish but that is why I put it on there, let it scratch and chip and not the metal on the gun. When the time comes I'll sand it and spray it again.
Saltydog235 is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 09:06 AM   #8
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Im undecided about the duracoat. I dont want to spend 100 bucks to parkerize just to cover it with duracoat and pay for that too. i think that my factory finish is a good base for duracoat if i went that route.

I dont have a problem with keeping oil on a gun so i still may parkerize and keep it oiled. although not the most maintenance free option, i think it could be the most durable.

thanks for the pic. good looking gun.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 09:52 PM   #9
presence
Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 48
Speaking of parkerized barrels, how the heck can i avoid the white fuzzies and lent from sticking all over my barrel from the cloth or rag im wiping it with?
presence is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 10:06 PM   #10
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 6,773
Use a black tee shirt.
No BS, that's what one manufacturer recommended.

What I use is a clean, soft toothbrush with a few drops of CLP Breakfree on it to lightly brush the metal.
This brushes off any dirt and applies a thin coat of CLP to keep the protection good.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 10:33 PM   #11
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 1,385
Look into cerakote. The toughest of coatings but more money.
ripnbst is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 12:30 PM   #12
wachtelhund1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2007
Posts: 120
Cost wise, Dura Coat is cheap, if you have an air brush and do it yourseld. Very easy to do. I did three rifles with one 4 oz Dura Coat bottle. DC is an epoxy finish that hardens over time, you can handle and shoot the gun after 24 hours, but it does not competely cure until a month or more. I've been very happy with my DC'd guns. One is a old Marlin 25 converted to .17 Mach II. It stays in my garage all the time for gophers and crows, and gets knocked around a lot. After 4 years there are no chips or scratches. I also did a rifle that I use for F class shooting with polished stainless steel barrel, spraying just the barrel. I started shooting the gun less than a week after I sprayed it. The DC finish is fine except for the target barrel crown. There the DC finish has come off the crown after approximately 2,000 shots of 3,000 + fps loads. May be it would have lasted if the crown was not polished smooth, or normal hunting crown, don't known; but the rest of the barrel is doing fine.
wachtelhund1 is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 07:01 PM   #13
jackpine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Posts: 345
parkerize first then duracoat. Parkerizing was developed as an undercoating for paint but turned out it's OK as is but park then duracoat and you'll have a #1 looking finish job
jackpine is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 07:34 PM   #14
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Thats what i want to do but i dont want to pay 100+ bucks for each procedure instead of one or the other. Still have not done it and still dont have my mind made up.

A post above says cerakote is the toughest finish available. Whats different with it compared to duracoat.
SEHunter is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 07:37 PM   #15
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,211
Duracoat is more durable.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old December 6, 2012, 12:58 AM   #16
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
My GI 1911 was manufactured in 1913. It left official government service at the end of WWI. It went to WWII and Korea before I purchased it in 1976 from the grandson of the WWI vet. It has not been refinished. It takes hard use and I have not had a rust problem.

In the case of form follows function, I think a parkerized finish is a very becoming way to dress any fine firearm which is to be used and not set in a display case.
ltc444 is offline  
Old December 6, 2012, 10:13 PM   #17
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
I took the gun to a place that does nothing but refinish firearms-mostly the metal but they do stocks too. After looking at samples, i decided to have him blue it. The parkerizing looked great but was lighter than the tone of black i want. He warned me that once in the parkerizing chemicals, they dont have alot of control over the color tone besides using the one that turns out black vs gray. He said alot depends on the density and type of metal being treated. The barrel and reciever are not the same type of metal so I decided to play it safe and will keep it oiled.

He will blast the metal and run through the bluing tank which will produce a darker tone of black yet it will be more of a matte finish from not being polished before dropped in the tank. He said it will still be somewhat poreous to hold some oil but not as much as parkerizing. He said he believes thats what the factory finish was. This time i will not neglect it. I dont mind cleaning it because im kind of ocd with that anyway and would still do it no matter what the finish.
SEHunter is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 12:01 PM   #18
Mac's!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2001
Posts: 129
There are many different firearms finishes available and everybody says their's is the "best in the world". Your choice of bluing over an abrasive blasted surface is a pretty good one. Yes, it will hold some oil due to the non-smooth surface.

Regarding "the best finish in the whole world": Laboratory tests for finishes are designed to accelerate those types of conditions that the finish may be exposed to. For example: One firearms finish is tested with an oxygenated heated salt water spray. This is a corrosion test..to test the finishes durability in salty humid conditions. Nobody has the time to take a finished part out to the sea shore, lay it on the sand and then sit there for months watching it to see if and how much it will rust.

Another test is chemical exposure: Nobody has the time to carry a finished part around aircraft being serviced, the public pool or the auto shop to see if exposure to vapors of those chemicals found in those areas will affect the finish. Hence...the chemical submergence tests.

The results of those tests will give the end user a better understanding of whether that finish or this finish will be a better choice for these parts under those particular conditions. Before using a finish, check out the test results. Note: That's test results, not advertsing hype!!!

Cerracote: They've conducted quite a few tests and have released the results. It's a firearms finish.
Gunkote: They've conducted a lot of tests, are Mil-Spec rated, their finish is not only used by several militaries, it's actually required by a couple and is the only resin that we use. It's a firearms finish.
Duracoat: Uhhmmm...ahhh...ooops! There are NO test results for that finish for use on firearms. They even stopped using the Mil-Spec rating because it wasn't a firearms rating!

Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
Mac's! is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 11:35 PM   #19
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Well, thats good to hear. I was sure to receive some slightly critical responses with my choice of matte bluing since the ####cote/kote options are so popular these days. Im sure those are great finishes but blueing can be a durable finish too as long as its oiled regularly and thats the plan. I will just be glad to get it back together since i have drug my heels so long on taking it to be refinished.
SEHunter is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 09:37 AM   #20
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10,598
Another option would be to have it Parkerized without the oil soak, then run through the bluing tank. That gives a flat black finish more durable than matte blue. It shouldn't cost much extra if the shop is set up for both finishes.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old December 15, 2012, 10:26 PM   #21
publius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2005
Location: Mississippi/Texas
Posts: 2,432
It's an Express, not a high dollar gun. Just thoroughly clean it with Acetone or MEK and Duracoat it. Should work fine, I wouldn't spend the money on parking for a base coat. If you park it I would leave it parkerized. Completely soak it down with oil before and after hunting season. Let the oil sit on there overnight and wipe excess the next day if there's any.
__________________
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
publius is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12013 seconds with 9 queries