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Old November 28, 2012, 06:44 PM   #1
bimmerland
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9MM carbine - buy or build

I have been wanting a carbine in a pistol caliber for a while. Mainly for plinking a SD and because I load my own ammo. I thought I could build one for about $750 but that seems impossible so I am left with a choice of carbines that function flawlessly and have an "AR" look to them and they use glock mags. So far I have found the JRC and the Thureon. Anybody have either of these and can tell me their experience with either carbine. I know they are both blowback and the Thureon does not lock back on last round but that is all I know. Please enlighten me with your experiences. Thanks

Last edited by bimmerland; November 28, 2012 at 06:57 PM.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:01 PM   #2
TMD
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I have a JR Carbine in .40S&W. I picked it used at my LGS for $500 out the door. I kind of suspected that there may have been an issue with it even before I bought it because the LSG had only been selling them for a few weeks and already heres a used one.
First time out I discovered the problem. Every few rounds it would jam one in the chamber at a 45 degree angle. When I removed the jamed cartridges they would have a deep cut in the middle of the case. Closer inspection revelaed that the feed ramp on the barrel had a very sharp leading edge. I pulled the barrel, rounded the sharp edge with a file then polished the feed ramp with a dremel. Now it feeds flawlessly no matter how fast I pull the trigger.
I have an EoTech with a 3x magnafier on it and the thing is a hoot to shoot. I have two Glocks in .40 S&W, a G27 and a G35 so the JRC is an wonderful addition to my .40's.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:02 PM   #3
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Delete, double post.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:08 PM   #4
bimmerland
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@TMD - thanks for the advice. My main SD is a G19 so whatever I buy has to handle glock mags. Been stocking up on 33 rounder's just for this occasion.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:14 PM   #5
BillM
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Olympic Arms has one that uses Glock mags. The ones I've seen
seem to run OK.

Lone Wolf also lists one, but I've heard they are hard to come by.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:19 PM   #6
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@BillM - Looked at both and they are out of my price range.
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:48 PM   #7
ratshooter
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I can't advise on the guns you mentioned but I do like 9mm rifles. I have a marlin camp carbine that I bought used about 5 years ago off GB for $286 total. I drove to the gunshop and picked it up so I saved the shipping.

I think these light kicking little rifles make excellent HD guns. Mine takes model 59 mags and I have a model 915 I bought for less than a $100 that came with three 15 round mags. Plus I have 3 20 round mags. I can hold off attackers for a long while.

But seriously these are fun guns to shoot. My buddies son killed his first deer with a Marlin CC at about 45 yards. He said it ran about 40 yards and dropped. They never lost sight of the deer.

At my buddies house he has a pond in the front that has a 4" post on the far side (about 95 yards) that used to have a catfish feeder on it. We ring that post shooting off hand and its easy to get 8 out of 10 hits. And the misses are real close. And that bullet slaps that post pretty hard at that range. This round should be effective to a least 150 yards for defense.
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Old November 28, 2012, 09:00 PM   #8
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@ratshooter - At the last gun show had a chance to heft a camp 9. It aint a lightweight but a nice gun.
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Old November 28, 2012, 09:51 PM   #9
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I just weighed my camp carbine and with a nylon sling on it, it weighs 6.75 pounds. My marlin 1894 44mag weighs 6.5 pounds with a leather sling. I don't know if thats heavy to you or not but I never seem to notice it.

My favorite BP hawken in 45 caliber weighs just over 9 pounds. You never forget you have it slung.
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Old November 29, 2012, 12:04 AM   #10
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Question.... Can I run my standard pistol loads (115gr Berrys plated with CCI500 and 4.8gr Unique) or do I gotta bump it up.
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:28 AM   #11
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Have you thought about the Keltec Sub 2k? I own one in .40 and it has functioned flawlessly. Folded it fits into a 15" laptop case and is extremely lightweight. Most are designed to take Glock mags. It's not exactly AR15 style but it is defantly an AR.
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:49 AM   #12
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@Loronzo - it's not on my favs list. Rather go with a JRC or Thureon
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Old November 29, 2012, 08:24 AM   #13
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Check out lone wolff website they have AR looks (blowback design) 9mm carbines that take glock mags
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Old November 29, 2012, 10:06 AM   #14
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@hairbag - thanks will do
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Old November 29, 2012, 11:09 PM   #15
chris in va
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Does MechTech make an upper for the Glock 19? I know one is available for the G21 frame. He could go that route instead.
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Old November 30, 2012, 11:17 AM   #16
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@chriis in va --- looked at that setup but not interested in messing around with my G19. Had a lot of custom work done to it and don't want to take the chance of compromising all the good things that have been done. Thanks for the thought.
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Old December 1, 2012, 07:34 PM   #17
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I built my AR15 9mm so that i could outfit it just how I wanted. I feel your pain as I thought the costs would be less but there are lots of little things that need to be altered. Not like just dropping a 9mm upper on it. As I don't have experince with their system you are looking into I will just give you some pointers I picked up during my handgun caliber carbine phase.

First, well they are just fun as hell. The long barrel makes them more quite and the muzzle hardly moves when shooting. I never have found that the AR15 had much recoil, but I was amazed when I started shooting 9mm carbines. I like mine for target practice and sometimes I shoot USPSA with it. The other thing I learded is that if I am going to end lugging a long gun I would rather it be a real long gun. Don't get me wrong I love them, but i would much rather have a pistol cambered in my rifle caliber, than a rifle chambered in my pistol caliber. So though I was thinking about using the 9mm carbine as an SHTF fan gun, it will instead be loaded to someone who needs a handy gun to keep themselves alive.

The other thing is that some people think that a 9mm carbine will be somehow better than a 9mm pistol in terms of power. Sorry I did many experiments with this. The problem is that because of the longer barrel most handgun loads are meant to have a burn rate that pushes the bullet for the leanth of a pistol barrel. In 16" carbine (unless you go the SBR route) the longer barrel acctually in some cases slows the bullet down because of barrel friction. Now if you load your own it would be a simple matter to work up a load with a burn rate for the longer barrel. You can also buy 9mm NATO spec ammo as it is loaded for much higher (its just above +P+ 9mm factory ammo) but it I think 8000 CUP lower than a proof load. this will get you better performance in the carbine.

I hope I did not dampen you spirits any because I really do love the little carbines, they are just not as great as it would first seem. Your idea of getting one that uses the glock mags is smart. I would not mind one of those myself. And As I am sure you know there is the Keltec system or a carbine conversion kit to make a 9mm pistol into a carbine. A buddy of mine has a keltec and it is a fun little gun. With my Ar15 9mm I can get head shoots at 100 without a problem, but any farther and things get very tricky. I put an Eotech on mine and with the low recoil and fast sight I can pepper a target with alot of rounds in a quicker time than with my AR15 .223. So Sorry if I got off the point or told you things you already knew, and have fun with you new toy.
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Old December 1, 2012, 08:21 PM   #18
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I don't own a 9mm carbine, but I have done a lot of T&E on them just cause I think they are cool. I am pretty sure I have shot at least a few magazines through all of the current offerings (there are over a dozen).

The JR carbines are fraught with issues, even now. Some run, some don't and I have seen a few fail catastrophically.

If I was going to spend my money, it would be between 2. The Thureon and the Lone Wolf.

You did not ask, but IMHO, there are better options than a 9mm carbine for serious work. The added 150 or so fps does not gain you any real benefit over the handgun. The point of moving up to a long gun is two-fold...increased accuracy and increased horsepower. So you get slightly improved accuracy in a less compact weapon with a tad more energy.

If you have to have an AR platform, the .300 AAC with a supressor is a far more versatile, and vastly superior round with just a barrel swap on any AR.

If you have to have a PCC, then take a look at the Thureon in 10mm. With the 10mm in a carbine, you are more than double the energy of the 9mm.

AR styling with a medium cartidge more your flavor ... take a look at a X30R from Excel arms. They are pretty cool and use .30 Carbine magazines which are cheap and hold 10 to 25 rounds.

The 10mm and .30 carbine offer great improvements in energy levels in a still compact package with moderate recoil and a noise level that is comparable to the hotter 9mms, but much less than a .223.
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Old December 1, 2012, 09:41 PM   #19
bimmerland
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I have been investigating both of these 9mm blowback carbines for a while now I too thought that the Thureon was a better option. At this point I am still undecided. Thanks "for all the help.
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Old December 2, 2012, 08:13 PM   #20
Petespacking
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I'm wanting to buy or build an AR 9 too. I've read that a ramped bolt is necessary, however Rock River doesn't have a ramp and CMMG bolts do. Any thoughts on the matter?
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