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Old November 29, 2012, 09:02 AM   #1
mitranoc
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AR defense round?

So between my 75gr Hornady TAP, and the 62gr Barnes TSX, which would you rather have ready if the SHTF?
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Old November 29, 2012, 09:55 AM   #2
UtopiaTexasG19
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Depends on the twist rate of the barrel and which is the most accurate in my guns.
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Old November 29, 2012, 10:33 AM   #3
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I would read the .223 through common structures thread.

I would choose the Barnes, twist rate is of no consequence at self defense ranges,

Based on my close range hunting experience, I would choose the lightest fastest bullet. But that's me, results may vary.
Interesting things happen with light fast bullets at close range.
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Old November 29, 2012, 11:46 AM   #4
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My twist is 1:7
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Old November 29, 2012, 12:00 PM   #5
UtopiaTexasG19
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With the 1:7 twist you are good to go with any of those heavier bullets at any range. I've tried some of the lighter bullets in my 1:7 twist (<55gr) and for my gun are not as accurate and sometimes the jacket falls apart before it hits the target. Rare but I've had it happen.
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Old November 29, 2012, 12:57 PM   #6
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The TAP round would (and is) my choice.... The barnes TSX is a hunting bullet, and over-penetration should be a larger concern when using it...
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:23 PM   #7
mitranoc
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The TAP round would (and is) my choice.... The barnes TSX is a hunting bullet, and over-penetration should be a larger concern when using it...
Was thinking the Hornady as well. But, I have a bunch a the TSX's for pig hunting, and wasn't sure how they were for defense purposes?
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:36 PM   #8
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But, I have a bunch a the TSX's for pig hunting, and wasn't sure how they were for defense purposes?
As long as penetration isn't a concern....go for it. But since we are responsible for everything that leaves the barrel of our gun in a defensive shooting, I prefer to use the round most likely to keep the projectile (and it's fragments) inside of the perp.
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:50 PM   #9
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I would prefer no collateral damage (outside of the perp).
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:03 PM   #10
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I would prefer no collateral damage (outside of the perp).
We all would but anything that will reliably penetrate 12-18'' (most people look for this for defensive use due to various angles that you may be required to engage the thug at) will always carry some risk of overpenetration.

If you're uber concerned a varmit bullet is likely what you're looking for but my rifles have either 75gr TAP or 62gr Gold Dots FWIW.
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:09 PM   #11
mitranoc
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I'll stick with the 75gr TAP's.
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:17 PM   #12
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Are you defending a ranch or just a home.

Home defense distances are very short and not much is going to matter, varmint bullets are nasty little buggers at close range. However, I'd say use what you've got. Use the Barnes.

You have to plan for over penetration even if you're using a potato gun.
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:29 PM   #13
mitranoc
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Are you defending a ranch or just a home.

Home defense distances are very short and not much is going to matter, varmint bullets are nasty little buggers at close range. However, I'd say use what you've got. Use the Barnes.

You have to plan for over penetration even if you're using a potato gun.
Potato gun

Defending my home. My AR is second in line to my handgun. But I like to have all bases covered.
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Old November 29, 2012, 09:54 PM   #14
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I'm using Nosler 77gr.HP bullets @ around 2500 fps for HD out of my 1/7 barrel.
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:06 AM   #15
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If you're uber concerned a varmit bullet is likely what you're looking for but my rifles have either 75gr TAP or 62gr Gold Dots FWIW.
That is what I am using (the TAP round at the moment). But just be aware, Hornady loads their TAP rounds with varmint-style bullets, and they typically penetrate to 10"....not 12"-18" (though small fragments usually make it to that point).
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:14 PM   #16
Art Eatman
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In the house or yard? Any old ammo that reliably goes bang. Pagan hordes way out there? Good-group bullets which are appropriate for the twist rate.
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:20 PM   #17
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The 11.5" AR I keep above my bed is loaded with American Eagle 50 grain HP. The other accessable AR's are all loaded with various BT or HP varmint type bullets. No confidence in the heavier bullets.
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Old December 1, 2012, 02:20 PM   #18
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The TSX are a good choice for me.
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Old December 1, 2012, 04:18 PM   #19
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55 grain bullets tend to do some wicked tumbling once they strike skin and bone. They also will not got completely through your sheet rock wall. So for HD, I'm loaded with 55gr loads. For outside the house it's usually 62 grain green tip.
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Old December 1, 2012, 04:48 PM   #20
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I keep TAP for my HD round but for SHTF/ doomsday round...idk
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Old December 1, 2012, 04:52 PM   #21
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Mobuck, those 50gr American Eagle bullets are excellent performers, however I have had them exit a pig, but they hit the ground where they stood.

I evaluate every kill for exits because I don't want anything coming out of pigs and potentially injuring a cow. I make sure the area is clear around the pig...I just want the extra insurance. To be fair the exits were always centerline of the neck.
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Old December 1, 2012, 07:57 PM   #22
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I load the 55gr TAP rounds for home defense and general stuff, but for survival situation I keep the 62 gr TSX and the 62gr Green tip. The Barnes TSX does not tumble. it expands and mostly straight line pentrates. Its good for hunting (I have shot hogs with it, and its always bang flop, bullet exits.) I would have no problem using the 62gr TSX for whitetails, just have'nt gotten a shot on one yet while carrying it. For people (bad guys) the TAP bullet will do more damage to the chest or head and have very little risk of over pentration. The 75gr Match bullets are not really great at the terminal end, but they do yaw and then break. The 75 gr match and the MK 262 77gr load are best for accurate shots vs people but I would not personally use this load for hunting. So home defense go with the lighter TAP rounds (as the 75gr TAP is the hornady match bullet) like the 55gr, or 62 gr. If you want a load for end of the word and want to only use one kind of bullet for everything then I would go with the 62 gr Barnes TSx even with the risk of more penetration.

My solution is that I just noted to myself were the TSX's and the TAPS rounds impact with one zero. In one of my rifles I found that if I zero for the 55gr tap out to about 150 I only have about a 1.5 MOA impact shift. Now this is luck for me, and your rifle may be different so check. I also keep a large amount of 55gr Wolf ammo about of SHTF. I expect that sometimes I will just want something that has moderate terminal ballistics and acceptable accuracy. My rifle will do 2 MOA with wolf, 1-1.5 MOA with TAp & the TSX. My twist rate is 1/9" so your rifle will shoot differently.

Another important thing to remember is that the TSX bullets are all long for their weight. Copper has less mass than lead so a FMJ bullet with a lead core is going to be shorter than a solid copper X bullet. Since the twist rate is affected by the OAL of the bullet and not he weight you can use the same weight of bullet but go to the X bullet for better twist rate match. Hope this helps, and if you have anything more you wan to know just shoot me a message.
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Old December 1, 2012, 10:28 PM   #23
Bartholomew Roberts
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55 grain bullets tend to do some wicked tumbling once they strike skin and bone. They also will not got completely through your sheet rock wall.
Just plain ol' 1/2" or 5/8" sheet rock isn't much of a barrier. Every 55gr round I am aware of will sail clean through multiple layers of sheet rock if you miss the target.

And not all 55gr ammo is the same, not all 55gr bullets tumble, and not all of those that do tumble will break apart - and if they don't break apart into tiny fragments they will penetrate more. Even with rounds that do commonly tumble and fragment like M193, the phenomenon still isn't 100% reliable.

I just want people to understand that just because you are using an AR and some highspeed ammo, you don't get a free pass to ignore your background.
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