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Old November 29, 2012, 02:09 PM   #51
tomrkba
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I like how pax does it.

TheNocturnus should have a long conversation with his wife. He could prepare a series of short videos of criminals engaged in crime so she can see what can happen to her. There is quite a bit of stuff on youtube that you can use. Once she sees the ruthlessness of the criminal actors, she should come around.

Once tact you may wish to take is to walk her through a scenario where someone takes the baby from her arms at the mall. Perhaps she gets knocked down. She should think about what to do and the time she has to act before that kid is gone.

If she won't even do that, then in my mind you have some serious thinking to do about the future of your marriage since children will be involved.

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Old November 29, 2012, 02:19 PM   #52
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Like Constantine and Pax I too am always armed, at home and out and about. My wife on the other hand does not want to carry a gun or really even have anything to do with them. I do not mind filling the protector role but I am not always at home when she is. I want her to know how to defend herself and our child should the need arise.

I mentioned earlier that I tried to get my wife to go to Pax's site (corneredcat.com) and she won't. Pax, what is your advise on the matter?
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:48 PM   #53
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I have this vision in my head of this naked dude streaming water jumping out of the shower with the shower curtain all tangled around him so he can grab his blaster and take out the jokers who just kicked in his bathroom door!

You really believe that your bathroom door will slow down someone that serious about coming after you long enough for you to get out of the shower and grab your gun?

Very few houses in my experience have hardened bathroom doors.

Personally, I believe in a layered defense where anything that requires a gun will trigger sufficient warning for me to get out of the shower. If you think you can do anything about it when you're in the shower and the goblins are coming in the bathroom door, that's a fine fantasy and I hope you enjoy it!
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:52 PM   #54
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Sophomoric imaginations entertain me greatly.

Did you read any of the previous posts? They're better words to explain the reasoning. You just don't want to see them.

If someone feels the need for something that someone else doesn't, move on. I hope that helps you greatly in your future endeavors.

Let it go. You don't, that's fine..I do..Life moves on for you. Or so I thought....
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Old November 29, 2012, 02:52 PM   #55
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I mentioned earlier that I tried to get my wife to go to Pax's site (corneredcat.com) and she won't. Pax, what is your advise on the matter?
Seriously self-serving here, but you asked: buy the book. Read it. Don't try to hand it to her or talk her into reading it. Just read it, and sometimes leave it lying around somewhere accessible when you leave the house. (The cover is fun, not scary, and if she asks you can say you know the author online, and that I told you there's good stuff in it for guys too.)

That said? There's absolutely nothing you can do to "make" another adult do something they don't want to do. You can raise barriers or lower them, and that's about it.

To lower the barriers and make it easier for her to think a little more about her own safety, try providing just a little information. Mostly, you'll need to ask lots of questions.

The information could be something like showing her the statistics for how many times houses in your area have been broken into during the day, or if there's been a recent news story about this particular scam, draw that to her attention. Not in a negative or judgmental way, just as a "wow, I didn't realize this was so common..." Then shut up.

That's the key: shut up and let her think about it. Don't add another word and don't lecture with a bunch of should-have's and ought-to's. Just provide the information and shut up. It might make her start asking questions, which would be your goal.

Later, other times, you can ask questions. When a news story about crime comes on the TV while you're watching it together, say something like, "Wow, that was really rough. What do you think those people should have done?" Then shut up. Shut up and listen to her answers. Don't correct her ideas or squash them, no matter how misguided they seem to be. Just ask the question and shut up.

Why do I say that shutting up is the key? Because your true goal is to get the questions into her mind. You want to plant little time-bomb questions in her mind. When you keep talking, especially if she feels like you are forcing "the answer" down her throat, she will argue against the answers, which means she'll never even think about the question or even realize there was one.

But if, instead, you focus on the question, and make it her question to answer, she'll have to go look for the answers for herself.

Once she realizes the questions are there and that they are her questions, your job is done. Because a woman who's looking for answers about safety from violent crime will always be safer than one who is not.

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Old November 29, 2012, 03:01 PM   #56
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If someone feels the need for something that someone else doesn't, move on. I hope that helps you greatly in your future endeavors.
It did, thanks!

You know, based on the list of guns in your signature line, you could keep one of your Glocks in the shower (the water won't hurt them) then you wouldn't even have to jump out to the crapper to get to it!
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Old November 29, 2012, 03:03 PM   #57
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Doggonit, I hate pulling on the moderator hat in a thread where I'm actively participating, but ...

It's time to let it go, please. You've both had your say.

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Old November 29, 2012, 03:26 PM   #58
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Yes ma'am. My Glock made a new friend in the shower as we speak. A rubber ducky.


Also, as you saw me mention your book on the forum. I did so to my girlfriend. She gave me positive feedback on what she read on the website alone. I'll be getting her her first gun and that book as a surprise when she completes the concealed carry class for her permit. I have the gun in line and everything.

I'll let the forum know how it goes.
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Old November 29, 2012, 04:11 PM   #59
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pax,

sorry to throw an iron into the fire, but with regard to the "kicking in the bathroom door" thing...

.45 auto says he believes in a layered defense. That's great. So do I, so does Mas Ayoob, and so does the DOD. (I was an aircraft carrier Tactical Action Officer and carrier battle group Force Over the Horizon Track Coordination officer at one time, if you want to talk layered defense...)

The thing is, if .45 auto has a layered defense akin to mine, which is really fairly basic, then a beeper will go off when somebody opens an exterior entry; dogs will bark if somebody enters the house (and probably before they actually get to the house); and the entry points are locked.

Oh, yeah, the two 60lb dogs might be a bit of a distraction and delaying action for the intruder(s), too. The Jack Russell, not so much, but she's more of an early warning system.

So, if I'm in the shower, the odds are nobody will get near the bathroom door to kick it in. I should have some lead time.

If, on the other hand, .45 auto expects a goblin to get to his bathroom door while he's in the shower, then he really does not have any semblance of a layered defense.

Meanwhile, I agree with you and Constantine. I just put one on as a matter of course, and then I don't have to think about it.

I don't play the lottery, and I don't try to guess when I might really need a gun.
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Old November 29, 2012, 04:22 PM   #60
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Well said Leake, well said.


Another thing I failed to mention. Is that I want my gun always under my supervision. You really think I'm going to put it back in the safe every time I have to do something around the house? So it's always with me

Last edited by Constantine; November 29, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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Old November 29, 2012, 05:10 PM   #61
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A dog of substance will deter an individual even if they are gentle dog. Small dog are only alarms or yappers that are easy to kick aside. And if she shot the guy get ready for a big money loss in lawyer fees and bail.
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Old November 29, 2012, 05:11 PM   #62
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Great thread. I have had similar circumstances happen at my home with my wife.

My wife is a bit more gun knowledgeable than the OPs, but she still needs some training. And untill Christmas, she has never had a gun of her own. There is a S&W Bodyguard .38spl with laser under the tree for her!

Thaks PAX, I just ordered your book to go along with the S&W! What a great gift pair, the gun and the book!
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Old November 29, 2012, 05:42 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnus
My wife is a decent judge of character but a little naive when it comes to dealing with people at the door. I plan on having more discussions about this in the future and creating a plan in case something happens again.
My wife won't have anything to do with guns, either. I have offered to teach her to shoot, but she is adamant that guns are bad. Yet she acknowledges that she is nervous at home alone, especially if I have to work late or attend an evening meeting.

We do have an alarm, and she keeps that one when I'm not home. She won't open the door to a stranger, so that's a plus. That should be ground rule #1. For your wife, I would suggest that you install a two-way intercom to the front door. If possible, the indoor station should be somewhere that allows your wife to see who is at the door without them being able to see her -- or even know where she might be in the house.

You should also install a supplementary deadlock on the front and rear door. The best kind are the ones with a vertical bolt that locks the door half and the jamb half together, like this one from Lowe's:

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Old November 29, 2012, 08:31 PM   #64
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Pax hit a couple of home runs on this thread...I agree with her that putting on a handgun when you wake up and carrying all day long until you go to bed,,,not only becomes habit,,,I would always carry my handgun in the house or out, just like I would not go out without my pants on...After years of routinely doing this it does not change your lifestyle at all,,,in fact it has improved mine, and your handgun is always there when you need it on your person, not in the other room or in the car or in the safe.

Her other point of logic in putting seeds of questions in a person's mind and letting them take it from there to draw their own conclusions instead of mentally strongarming them,,,should work with both females and males, very subtle and diplomatic,,,yet hopefully getting the desired results.

I do not answer the door or the phone,,,but I am not a recluse,,,and have a lifetime of Boy Scout Popcorn to prove it and my Wife and I have eaten a ton of Girl Scout cookies. I quess I just don't answer the door to adults and I have thought since I always look from a side window to see who it is,,,how I would handle a medical emergency....If a person looked like they had a medical emergency I would ask them through the closed and locked door what was wrong,,,and if they replied they needed medical help,,,I would pause and then tell them to stay where they were that I had just called 911 and an ambulance and the police were on the way....If they did not run off at that point,,,I would then call 911. As most people have cell phones these days and since I live in the middle of the city,,,the police, fire, hospitals, gas stations, grocery stores, etc are all no more than five or ten minutes away.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:21 AM   #65
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dont open your door before verifying who is out there
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:29 AM   #66
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Thanks for the advice Pax. I will look into getting the book. I try to discuss scenarios with my wife and she just thinks i'm paranoid. I have been a victim of armed robbery thrice in my life so I think I am justified in thinking of worst case scenarios.

I will take your advice and ask questions and kind of be indirectly planting the seeds of self defense thinking. Thanks.
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Old November 30, 2012, 02:12 AM   #67
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Trained the wife to tell solicitors "my husband is in the back yard cleaning his shotguns with his biker buddies, told me not to bother him unless it's a life or death situation."

Always assumed the "I want to talk to your husband" line was a ploy to see if she were alone.

There are also two mastiffs in the house.

Good luck.
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Old November 30, 2012, 03:28 AM   #68
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Nope you didn't.


Tell her to call the cops nezt time, not you, FIRST.
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:50 AM   #69
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O/P asked about his wife who shows little interest to no interest in firearms. For most every person in the USA, 98% plus, carrying a gun constantly during one's waking hours at home is considered idiotic. Having a firearm within easy reach makes more sense especially if you have a dog or two or ten at home. Regardless, a gun is not the answer here, let alone suggesting constant carry even while at home. Best advice, don't answer the door, dogs, which are in the house in question and are a great deterrent, an alarm/panic button, and possibly pepper spray. This really is not a firearms related question as it is not an option for the O/P's wife at this time.
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Old December 1, 2012, 01:39 AM   #70
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For most every person in the USA, 98% plus, carrying a gun constantly during one's waking hours at home is considered idiotic.
I completely disagree. How can you call anyone wanting to protect themselves idiotic? Seems pretty intelligent to me. If I ever need a gun I will need it right away and when it is always on me, it is always available.

I would rather my wife have a gun than pepper spray or to put our dogs at risk. A BG that enters my house illegally and wants to do harm needs to be stopped, period. Pepper spray and/or my little dogs will not do it but pieces of metal traveling at a high velocity and impacting some vital organs will.
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Old December 1, 2012, 01:53 AM   #71
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Aberrational behavior may not be considered strange by the practitioner but "constant-carry" of a gun around the house? Really? I suppose someone could rationalize anything. How many back-up guns should one carry as well? Since your wife will not join you and the 1% or .01% or whatever, and engage in "constant-carry," then I would do as much as possible to make your home as safe as possible. Lot of good suggestions in the thread. OPSEC
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Old December 1, 2012, 02:01 AM   #72
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Aberrational behavior may not be considered strange by the practitioner but "constant-carry" of a gun around the house? Really? I suppose someone could rationalize anything. How many back-up guns should one carry as well? Since your wife will not join you and the 1% or .01% or whatever, and engage in "constant-carry," then I would do as much as possible to make your home as safe as possible. Lot of good suggestions in the thread. OPSEC
My gun is part of my daily wardrobe. Just like I put socks on in the morning, I put my gun on. I paid for my CCW permit and I intend to use the heck out of it. I actually feel naked without my gun on my hip. It does not bother me or my wife that I carry in the home. To each their own I guess.
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Old December 1, 2012, 02:11 AM   #73
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It does not bother me either. Where I live the LEO response time to 911 calls is over 30 minutes. People around here don't get much trouble as we all have dogs and guns, I've just never met anyone who walks around the house every day, all day, and night, with a gun strapped on. You cannot deny that it is aberrational behavior and is considered odd, sort of a "nut-job" type of deal by most people, even gun owners. Whatever works for you, go for it, but by definition you would have to remain in constant condition "orange" if you are armed, just to be safe, and that is no way to live in my opinion. Condition "white," i.e. relaxation, when you are home, is one of the good things in life. OPSEC
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Old December 1, 2012, 03:45 AM   #74
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jmortimer, a gun you have stashed somewhere in the house is a gun waiting to be found by a burglar.

The more guns you have within reach, the more guns you have left to be found by burglars, your kids, your kids' friends...

OTOH, the gun that is on your person is not available to any of the above.

I find people who keep guns stashed throughout the house very hard to fathom; to me, that seems idiotic.

My carry gun is on me; others are locked in a 7 and 8 gauge Sturdy safe, with heavy duty fireproofing, stainless plate to defeat torches, and ball bearing plate to defeat drill bits.

A skilled burglar, with good tools, will break into that safe in a matter of several minutes.

A casual burglar or hophead is not getting into that safe. At over 1,000 pounds, that safe is unlikely to be easily moved, either.

But the gun or guns that are within my reach are also under my total control, apparently unlike yours.
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Old December 1, 2012, 08:04 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by MLeake View Post
jmortimer, a gun you have stashed somewhere in the house is a gun waiting to be found by a burglar.

The more guns you have within reach, the more guns you have left to be found by burglars, your kids, your kids' friends...

OTOH, the gun that is on your person is not available to any of the above.

I find people who keep guns stashed throughout the house very hard to fathom; to me, that seems idiotic.

My carry gun is on me; others are locked in a 7 and 8 gauge Sturdy safe, with heavy duty fireproofing, stainless plate to defeat torches, and ball bearing plate to defeat drill bits.

A skilled burglar, with good tools, will break into that safe in a matter of several minutes.

A casual burglar or hophead is not getting into that safe. At over 1,000 pounds, that safe is unlikely to be easily moved, either.

But the gun or guns that are within my reach are also under my total control, apparently unlike yours.
+1

I don't understand the logic in people who knock on people like you and I Leake or Kathy J. it just doesn't make sense to me. Ok if you don't do it. I won't knock on you. I'll give my $0.02 ($0.01 after Obama Care) in a respectful way if you ask. To me it's an article of clothing. All the way until I go to bed at night. Like Leake said, no need to leave it out for others to find. Anyone, whether family or not. It doesn't bother me it's not a hassle, I feel safer with it. And no. To the person earlier who said "move if you feel unsafe" that's the more idiotic comments on this thread too. 1 to assume I'm unsafe..I'm the one carrying 24/7 you should be the one feeling unsafe. And 2. If people in my city moved every time they felt unsafe, we'd be playing musical chairs with our homes in a never ending cycle.

Laughed again at the thought of some logic people think they have to lash out negatively on someone that means nothing to them. Lol. Does it really matter that much to you to want to change what I do?

Here let me leave my gun on my bed before I use the bathroom.

Everyone has a story and a reason why they're the way they are. If you've had a perfect life where your door was never kicked in and you weren't in LE and you never had a gun jammed into your ribs. That's wonderful for you. I'm happy.

Just coincidentally..a lot of us are also gun enthusiasts and refuse to be sheep.


thank you


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