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Old November 26, 2012, 01:18 PM   #151
Crow Hunter
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No, actually that doesn't match my own experience with OPSEC. Usually the standing rule is to decline to comment whether it is in use or not. Knowledge of not using something can be just as compromising as knowledge of using something. Declining to comment as a matter of course just helps keep people guessing, not to mention working as great misdirection.

I'm not doubting that Delta might use Glocks. But that comment from Vickers means nothing.
He didn't say no comment to what they use.

He said he couldn't comment on these questions:

Quote:
Will you share some information on Delta's use of the Glock 22? How did it fare? Why did they try a .40?
To me that meant Delta's use of the G22 was an accepted given in that part of the conversation.

But. I had his other comments and other sources in the back of my mind pertaining to this (some that I listed) so maybe that colored my interpretation of what he said.
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Old November 26, 2012, 01:18 PM   #152
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FWIW....

The popular term; DELTA or The Delta Force is no longer used by the US Army or by the DoD/USSOCOM.
The "new" name for SFOD-D is now; ACE or Army Compartmentalized Elements. Not to be confused with ACE(Army Corps of Engineers) .
ACE was also called CAG or Combat Applications Group but that was ended about 2 years ago.
I'm sure in time, ACE will be changed too but for now, keep in mind, the Delta Force was disbanded.


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Old November 26, 2012, 01:23 PM   #153
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He didn't say no comment to what they use.

He said he couldn't comment on these questions:
And those questions refer to their use of the Glock 22. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. The OP on that thread made it sound as if its usage was a given, but the OP isn't Vickers. Then Vickers declined to comment. That's not a source IMO.
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Old November 26, 2012, 01:26 PM   #154
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"Delta Force was disbanded"
Was it "disbanded" or renamed? Regardless, it never officially existed from I understood. I assume any given "ACE" operator can use whatever pistol floats their boat as long as it is approved.
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Old November 26, 2012, 01:34 PM   #155
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And those questions refer to their use of the Glock 22. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. The OP on that thread made it sound as if its usage was a given, but the OP isn't Vickers. Then Vickers declined to comment. That's not a source IMO.
If you don't have the other comments and information, I could see how you might interpret it differently.

However, at M4Carbine.net, it was pretty much a "given" detail/variable. So A=C was in the word portion of the problem.

That is why the OP wrote it the way he did.

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Old November 26, 2012, 01:41 PM   #156
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If you don't have the other comments and information, I could see how you might interpret it differently.

However, at M4Carbine.net, it was pretty much a "given" detail/variable. So A=C was in the word portion of the problem.

That is why the OP wrote it the way he did.
When giving a source by itself that is dependent on "given" information established at another location, it might be a good idea to also link that information.
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Old November 26, 2012, 02:01 PM   #157
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When giving a source by itself that is dependent on "given" information established at another location, it might be a good idea to also link that information.
I did.

Just after the fact.



I have a bad habit of assuming that people have all the same info as I do and know what I am talking about.

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Old November 26, 2012, 02:37 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by zombietactics
I'd like to be clear that I am not a Glock fanboi. They aren't even my favorite guns. However, it staggers the imagination to call Glocks "lowest common denominator" ... just doesn't make sense given their popularity with a whole range of people who have sufficient experience to know better, and who get to choose whatever they want.
By calling the Glock, the lowest common denominator I did not mean to imply that it was a subpar pistol(I carry one) nor did I intend to disparage anyone who carries a Glock as an issue weapon.
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Old November 26, 2012, 03:19 PM   #159
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However, it staggers the imagination to call Glocks "lowest common denominator" ... just doesn't make sense given their popularity with a whole range of people who have sufficient experience to know better, and who get to choose whatever they want.
But in a sense, they ARE the lowest common denominator.

Glocks are, by far, the most common striker-fired polymer pistols out there. Most folks (even LEOs, who may or may not actually know a whole lot about firearms) know what a Glock is.

They are (relatively) inexpensive, reliable, easy to find, and parts and sccessories are readily available. They aren't really the best striker-fired polymer pistols out there anymore, but many folks don't really care. Buying a Glock doesn't take a lot of thought. You just plop down your money and know you are getting a good, reliable, proven pistol that a lot of other people have been happy with.
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Old November 26, 2012, 09:25 PM   #160
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"It's up to you. Since the topic obviously interests you, I still highly recommend that you read the GAO report". (JohnKSA).

I may just do that. And I would strongly recommend to you Sir, that as a Moderator, you lead by example and take a more respectful tone in your future debates. It is easy to cross the line and disrespect an individual on line, safely tucked in the confines of your home. Face to face, I seriously doubt you would act so condescending towards me in making your points. Don't ever forget the golden rule, just because you are typing anonymously from behind a locked door. Treat others as you want to be treated and the respect will return to you 10 fold. Consider leading by example in the future if you want to be held in the same high esteem as the other Moderators on The Firing Line.
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:38 AM   #161
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And I would strongly recommend to you Sir, that as a Moderator, you lead by example and take a more respectful tone in your future debates.
It can be very difficult to point out that a person's position is not supported by the facts without seeming disrespectful from the perspective of the person whose position is being deconstructed. I can understand why you are upset, but it's ridiculous to blame me for being the one who finally brought the facts to your attention.
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It is easy to cross the line and disrespect an individual on line...
No one has disrespected you. Pointing out that a person's opinion is not supported by fact is not disrespecting them.
Quote:
...safely tucked in the confines of your home. Face to face, I seriously doubt you would act so condescending towards me ... just because you are typing anonymously from behind a locked door.
Furthermore, if having someone point out the flaws in your reasoning or opinion offends you to the point that you feel you need to resort to chest thumping and veiled threats, I suggest you avoid internet forums in the future. Anyone who posts on internet forums will eventually discover that they've been holding onto at least one misconception or factually unfounded opinion.

It's happened to me a time or two, and while I don't look forward to it, I realize it is inevitable and try to treat it as a learning experience.
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Old November 27, 2012, 08:59 PM   #162
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"chest thumping and veiled threats". ??? No, that was not my intention in any way, shape or form. My point was, and is, when people are face to face (without an audience to impress), the tone of the discussion is often much more civil than on the phone or Internet. My guess is you would be more civil and polite in a face to face discussion, or at least I would hope so. No veiled threat intended, I assure you. I have no intention of getting on my horse (or "Shetland" Pony), and heading south. Hell, if you fight half as good as you debate, I'll get my butt handed to me.... again!

"No Mas, No Mas"..... I'll read the report.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:11 PM   #163
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Because I'd [gripe] even more about that than I do the weapons I've already been issued.... Yes please give us a pistol that matches our plastic rifle and has even worse ergonomics

Not to mention you've got some real life Gomer Pyles in the military, they NEED a safety. If we ever switch to a Glock (God forbid) I will take a zero on my pistol qual score and not get shot in the back that day.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:17 PM   #164
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pardon if this was already mentioned in the thread but looks like Colt was awarded the contract for the USMC pistol last year

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gears...-is-done-deal/

and Beretta got the new Army Contract

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/09/17/b...#axzz2DTn8gQnF
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:29 PM   #165
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^ Marines are getting a nice pistol
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:03 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by hounddawg View Post
pardon if this was already mentioned in the thread but looks like Colt was awarded the contract for the USMC pistol last year

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gears...-is-done-deal/

and Beretta got the new Army Contract

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/09/17/b...#axzz2DTn8gQnF
Awesome links. Thanks for sharing!


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Old December 5, 2012, 01:47 AM   #167
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The Colt 45 ACP, is prone to stove pipes, and has a low capacity, is heavy, and old fashioned.

I shot the old clunker in bulls eye competition, carried the light weight Commander for a while, my match pistol was built in 1913, accurized by Al Dynon? Think that's how he spelt his name, and ten round big hole's at 20 yds was not uncommon.

The old saying that the Chief picks the weapons, and the grunts have to make them work holds true a lot of the time.

Take the picking of a new car? The first part of this expensive endeavor, is what is most important to you! If No 1, must be great on gas, the fact that it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, was missed.

History of armed encounters is quite often not even looked at.

My Glock 19 4th Gen Pistol was picked, and altered, to be accurate, it is hi capacity, conceals well.

It fits three rolls--- 1/ concealed carry, 2/ Security, G licensed work, 3/ IDPA Competition. And you are not going to wear it out in a hurry.

Well I could go on, but you most likely got the message, and yes, the overall tone of this thread has been well mannered, and interesting.
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Old December 5, 2012, 02:25 PM   #168
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The Colt 45 ACP, is prone to stove pipes, and has a low capacity, is heavy, and old fashioned.
LOL!

My Colt 1911 has never had a stovepipe.

I agree, though that it's so old-fashioned. I mean it uses the same Browning short-recoil system as a Glock, after all. And the ammo (brass metallic cartridge) is positively ancient. I'm glad they don't use those anymore!

Oh, wait.
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Old December 5, 2012, 03:43 PM   #169
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:37 PM   #170
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I agree, though that it's so old-fashioned. I mean it uses the same Browning short-recoil system as a Glock, after all. And the ammo (brass metallic cartridge) is positively ancient. I'm glad they don't use those anymore!
Plastic cartridges anyone? They are already doing it with shotgun shells.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:43 AM   #171
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We used Glock 19's in Iraq. They were Jam-o-matics. Regardless what you heard, the fine dusty sand jams the living &*&&^& out of them. The military's Berretta 92 were almost flawless. The Berrettas were just nonstop reliable.
Unintentional discharges were not uncommon when trying to holster a Glock while wearing a pack. The index finger would be pushed onto the trigger inside the trigger guard by the Glock holsters and a discharge would result. The pack prevented us from seeing the holster many times.
I did not trust the glocks and well as many on my team.
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:40 AM   #172
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We used Glock 19's in Iraq. They were Jam-o-matics.
I'm sure you were just limp-wristing them!
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Old December 6, 2012, 04:27 PM   #173
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You won't see a hammer-fired Glock with a manual safety and a true DA-style 11lb first pull anywhere in your future
Don't give them any ideas. That sounds almost as bad as a Glock 1911. Almost.
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Old December 18, 2012, 04:30 PM   #174
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To answer "Jmort's" posted question....

To answer the forum post/question; YES, the US Army Delta Force was disbanded.
Former SECDEF; Donald Rumsfeld, folded the spec ops unit; Delta Force & converted it over to the US DoD(department of defense).
The new spec ops unit(still made up of mostly US Army airborne Rangers & SF qualified troops) is now called ACE.
This unit identifier(a military way of saying name) may change soon too.

Thanks for playing, ;
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Old December 18, 2012, 05:27 PM   #175
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Why is that? Was it just not the same ever since Chuck Norris retired to holster his gun, and punch people as a LEO in Texas?
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