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Old November 25, 2012, 01:38 PM   #26
hounddawg
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I had this issue occur in the field a while back when I changed the trigger guard to a 10rd magazine, the bolt would be almost completely closed but it wasnt, I unscrewed the trigger guard and screwed it back in slowly tightening down until everything worked fine and closed fully and the rifle worked
from your original post. I guess I am confused here. Does loosening the trigger guard screw clear up the problem or is this a different problem?

Now if this is something different will a unloaded case chamber correctly after resizing with no bullet seated. That would narrow it down to a COL or case resize issue and you can go from there with it
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Old November 25, 2012, 02:08 PM   #27
DASHZNT
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I just tooo apart the rifle to stop any questions to the integrity of the bolt. Everything is exactly the same, the new problem is i gotta reassemble the rifle to work properly again, which is a whold new problem in itself.

Anyways, I have the same exact problem with the rifle apart from the stock as i did with it together. The rounds just wont allow the bolt to close fully!

My press has the die screwed all the way down to the shell plate.. I cannot push the "shoulder", as recommended, any further back... so therefore, the damn bolt just wont close. What else do I do or am I screwed and forced to not shoot .308 anymore?

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Old November 25, 2012, 03:10 PM   #28
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May sound crazy, did you check the bullet. May be larger than 308. I feel your pain. Your a reloader ,seems like your doing everything right, it can only be a few things which you have done. You will fine it, and when you do you will kick yourself. Be Safe Chris
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Old November 25, 2012, 03:27 PM   #29
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Put the rifle back together and verify that factory stuff works (well, cycles).

Start with a fresh case (what ever your source is - don't do anything to it). Will it chamber? It is a bolt action and the caming action should close on a fired case.
It will chamber - move on.
It will NOT chamber, why? Try a case from a round that was fired IN that rifle. Will it chamber? If not, something has changed since that round was fired. New ball of string to un-ravel.

Moving on from 'it chambers'.
Size 'IT'. Now will it chamber?
If not, pull the sizing die, take it apart and clean it, inside and out, stick it back together and follow the makers instructions for proper settings. Size a case. Will it chamber? If not, this is the most likely problem. If it does, move on.

Moving on from 'sized brass chambers'.
Check the case length. Trim if needed or you want consistency.
As you make dummy rounds (I do too), seat a bullet with NO CRIMP. Does it chamber? Is the COAL in specks? Is the ogdive of the bullet a 'fat' nose? Is there any marks on the bullet from rifling? It chambers. Now slowly set your crimp (I do very little crimping and then only with selected rounds loaded with hard to burn powder. This is one of those your decision type things.) Remember that a hard/heavy crimp can and will set back the shoulder causing the case to bulge, sometimes just enough to not allow the case to chamber, yet not noticeable. Only crimp on bullets that have canalures (the little rings cut in the bullet, a crimp on the body of the bullet is not advised).

From this point on, their are just too many minimal tweaks.

Hope this helped and you get going.

Enjoy,

OSOK
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Old November 25, 2012, 03:48 PM   #30
DASHZNT
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Well.. ive done all that you ask. I just cannot get a piece of brass resized to chamber with the bolt closed! The rifle chambers factory ammk and brass that was fired in it. But the ones that dont, thats the whole point of a resizing die, to bring it back to spec. I cannot get past the first step in reloading if the brass wont allow the bolt to close. Seating and crimp arent even on the agenda yet because the brass wont resize properly is my guess.

The rifle functions fine tho and nothing is broken.... if the bolt is closed, it gonna go bang!

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Old November 25, 2012, 05:32 PM   #31
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Screw the die in 1/4 turn past touching.
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Old November 25, 2012, 05:55 PM   #32
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As mrawsom states, the proper way to set a sizing die is... raise ram, screw die until it touches the plate then go another 1/4 turn. Unless you know how much of a "bump" you want to give the shoulder use the suggested method.

Now to solve your problem. Chamber an unssized case. If it chambers easily resize and try again. If it doesn't chamber you either have the die set incorrectly or a bad die. If it chambers seat a primer. See if it chambers. If it doesn't your primer isn't seated deep enough. If it chambers seat a bullet and try to chamber the cartridge. If it doesn't either the bullet isn't seated deep enough in the case or it's the wrong caliber. There is no reason to crimp the bullet. Make sure your bullet seeating/crimp die isn't screwed down too far and over crimping.
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Old November 25, 2012, 06:09 PM   #33
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OK, Dash...I've got the old gunsmith hat on firmly now.

First thing--don't get frustrated! The problem can be solved.

Let's do some fault isolation. First thing is identifying the exact problem.

Your post = the bolt won't close.

We need to know now exactly HOW the bolt won't close.

Please post the following:

1. Will the bolt pick up the round from the magazine?
2. Will the bolt FULLY seat the cartridge in the chamber? If not, where does it stop? At the shoulder of the case? Halfway down the case body? Where?
3. Can you close the bolt fully and smoothly on an empty chamber?
4. If so, will the cartridge fully seat--but the bolt handle will NOT turn down?
5. Important!!! When you experience the problem, does the bolt become harder and harder to move until it stops (soft stop) or if you atempt to chamber does the bolt move freely and then come to a HARD stop against an unknown object?

Please try to post answers to all of this. The problem can be identified--it just takes a bit of brainstorming.

(An idea--do you have a webcam--or a small camera where you can send a short movie/MPEG file?)
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Old November 25, 2012, 06:27 PM   #34
DASHZNT
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Thanx Buddy... I was angry earlier so I grabbed 300 rounds of .44 Magnum for my S&W 629-4 and 500 of .45ACP and one of my 1911s and went to the range to relieve some frustration on paper targets!! Currently, im driving home relaxed and stress free. Ill respond later this evening or early am with answers to your questions... Thank You.
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Old November 25, 2012, 06:47 PM   #35
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300 rounds of .44 Magnum for my S&W 629-4 and 500 of .45ACP and one of my 1911s and went to the range to relieve some frustration on paper targets!!
And THAT's how it's done, folks......

I know the feeling! I haven't been to the range for a while--I'll be heading out tomorrow with some .308 and a .220 Swift I haven't fired in over 4 years.

Take your time!
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Old November 25, 2012, 06:47 PM   #36
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If you've done everything you can I suggest taking it to a gunsmith. Sounds like a simple fix.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:17 PM   #37
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.308 Reloading Question/Help...

Wow - I'm getting frustrated just trying to follow all this!

So...I can sypathize with you DASH.

Now I don't want to interupt powderman's troubleshoot - Think he may be your best bet on the problem and solution.

But, If you could recap for me:

1) Factory ammo doesn't create this problem?
2) Your dummy rounds do?
3) Your reloads also do?
4) You tried RobertInIowa suggestion of resizing a case w/o a bullet?
5) You tried hounddawg idea of loosening the screws? And?
6) You tried mrawesome22 thought of screwing in the die a extra 1/4 turn?

The only problem I can relate - Was had a problem chambering my reloads once. Switched to new cases and only reloaded those cases that had been fired in that gun - For what ever reason it fixed the problem.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:24 PM   #38
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I like the Sharpie idea.

You could also pull down a factory round and then resize it and see if it chambers still afterward.

If you have another shell holder handy might try it.

You could also get after the resized brass vs. the factory brass with a pair of calipers and see if there are any detectable dimensional differences. For starters, how long is this brass that won't chamber?

Have you observed how far the case is actually going into the resizing die as you are performing the resize operation?

-cls
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:55 PM   #39
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I reload 308 all the time, Full,Neck & partical neck size. This post is a strange one, wish I could help. Can you try another die, Remingtons have alot of free bore. I stay at 2.800 42.0 Gr IMR 4064 168 gr. Sierra HPBT. Rem.700 LTR,Never had a problem. Powderman has it layed out right, Hang in there DASHZNT,when we figure this out you will enjoy reloading 308 it's a great caliber.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:56 PM   #40
hounddawg
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I am still trying to figure out if when he loosens the trigger guard screws if the rounds will chamber. Keep in mind I am old and easily confused.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:59 PM   #41
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Thanx guys... i hope we can figure this out. I havent made it home yet, im enjoying the stress free feeling of shooting my big handguns! I plan on trying out powderman's tips later on this evening or early moring tomorrow and i will post my results.. i really hope we can get this woring so i can make some loads im confident in.

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Old November 25, 2012, 08:04 PM   #42
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Keep your eyes on the road. Get home Safe. Chris
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Old November 25, 2012, 08:16 PM   #43
DASHZNT
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HaHa.. Yea, thx. I took my brother and had him drive... its nice to have a break from that as well!
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Old November 26, 2012, 06:30 AM   #44
DASHZNT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powderman View Post
OK, Dash...I've got the old gunsmith hat on firmly now.

First thing--don't get frustrated! The problem can be solved.

Let's do some fault isolation. First thing is identifying the exact problem.

Your post = the bolt won't close.

We need to know now exactly HOW the bolt won't close.

Please post the following:

1. Will the bolt pick up the round from the magazine?
2. Will the bolt FULLY seat the cartridge in the chamber? If not, where does it stop? At the shoulder of the case? Halfway down the case body? Where?
3. Can you close the bolt fully and smoothly on an empty chamber?
4. If so, will the cartridge fully seat--but the bolt handle will NOT turn down?
5. Important!!! When you experience the problem, does the bolt become harder and harder to move until it stops (soft stop) or if you atempt to chamber does the bolt move freely and then come to a HARD stop against an unknown object?

Please try to post answers to all of this. The problem can be identified--it just takes a bit of brainstorming.

(An idea--do you have a webcam--or a small camera where you can send a short movie/MPEG file?)
Ok Powderman.. following are the answers to yiur questions.

#1 - Yes.
#2 - Yes Factory ammo. My reloads will not. Im not quite sure where it stops, it appears to be just before the bolt is fully forward and I try to lock and turn to the down position. It will not allow me to complete thst part of the process.
#3 - Yes
#4 - Yes, but only with the brass that I resized.
#5 - The bolt glides fine back and forth, I just can make that final fraction forwafd that allows me to turn the bolt to the locked position. (Again, thats only the case with the resized brass, factory ammo is cycling fine.)

Note: This is after resetting the resize die to touching the shell holder plate and then going 1.5 turns further down and locking into place. There was no change at all in the resized brass from that point either, the same result was acheived, which is the bolt will not close fully.

As far as your webcam idea goes, I have the one on my cell phone and I also have a GoPro HD Hero2 as well. Id probably go with that one as the quality is night and day but uploading and processing will be a bit. Ill gladly do it for you though if you insist on it.

Oh and by the way, Im back to being equally if not more frustrated than I was when I took that break yesterday afternoon! Ive tried everything over an over again, the more I retrace the most mundane step, the more I feel stupid for doing it. I know what to do, ive done it thousands of times with no mistakes. Now, I do the same task and nothing comes out right, not even a slight improvement to show im on the right track just continual failure!
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Old November 26, 2012, 06:49 AM   #45
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I didn't read all of the post thoroughly above, so if I repeat something you have tried, just ignore it.

You have checked to make sure the cases are not too long? Trimmed to correct length?

Will a resized case chamber if there is no bullet in it? And not close if a bullet is seated? This could be the neck wall of the brass is too thick which could be very dangerous if you were able to get it to chamber causing excessive pressures as it doesn't have enough room to release the bullet if the chamber neck is too tight. If you have a caliper, check the outsize diameter of the case neck on a resized case and on a factory case and compare. If the resized case is larger, that could be the problem.

Have you tried calling the die manufacturer? They are usually a big help.
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:03 AM   #46
DASHZNT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0sewood View Post
I didn't read all of the post thoroughly above, so if I repeat something you have tried, just ignore it.

You have checked to make sure the cases are not too long? Trimmed to correct length?

Will a resized case chamber if there is no bullet in it? And not close if a bullet is seated? This could be the neck wall of the brass is too thick which could be very dangerous if you were able to get it to chamber causing excessive pressures as it doesn't have enough room to release the bullet if the chamber neck is too tight. If you have a caliper, check the outsize diameter of the case neck on a resized case and on a factory case and compare. If the resized case is larger, that could be the problem.

Have you tried calling the die manufacturer? They are usually a big help.
Im using a case resized with no bullet... its nonsense to seat a bullet in a case if its not resized properly in the first place. The cases im usine vary from 2.000 to 2.008 which is more than within spec. I might measure it later on, Im just laying on the sofa right now as im totally fed up with this $hit!

Also, I plan on calling the manufacturer in the morning to see what they have to say. With my luck they'll pass the buck onto Remington or something which clearly is not the case here... I think we can all agree that the die is not doing its job.

Furthermore, the brass fired out if this rifle that chambers fine, once I reload and fire that again, will eventually need to have the neck knocked back and I dont see this die doing that to any brass currently in that state so it surely wont do it those either.

DASHZNT
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:04 AM   #47
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First off let me say I have loaded a lot of 308. I used to shoot a match tuned 308 M1 for high power and have a Remington LTR. I've sent a bunch of 155 and168 SMK's down range. I sent a few 175 SMK's down range too but mostly the 168's.

I did not find the need to go much past the shell holder touching the die with the 308. (I do go 1/4 turn past touching for 223 though) I use an RCBS press. There could be a slight issue with using the Dillon although I know folks who load their match 308 ammo on Dillon’s.

I have two sets of dies, one a match Hornaday bushing die which allows me to adjust neck tension by changing the bushing. The other die set is the Forester National Match dies. For the bolt gun I use the Hornaday size die.

I am not interested in brass life but rather uniformity. I full length size every time. The LTR is an easy ½ MOA gun without working at it very hard.

I use RCBS case lube 2 on a lube pad. Yeah it’s messy but I have yet to stick a case and it does wipe off with a damp rag.

I check brass I’m going to use in a match and ensure the case chambers without issue before proceeding to powder and bullets. I don’t check every single case but a random sample from the sized brass. If everything goes OK and it always has I continue. After powder and bullet, I don’t crimp a SMK. I use neck tension alone. This includes 223 used in a match AR. After the ammo is loaded again I take a sample of the loaded ammo to make sure it will cycle through the rifle.
Building a dummy round is a very good idea because for me I can set up my non match seating die up quickly. I like and use the Forester Ultra match seating die for match ammo and they work well.

Take it one step at a time and figure out when and why your reloads won’t chamber. I’m sure it’s going to be simple. Recently I had a heck of a time with some stupid 30-30. I wasn’t chamfering trimmed brass enough. Seating the bullet was crushing the shoulder.

I guess my other thought is, is the die in spec? Good luck.
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:15 AM   #48
DASHZNT
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Ive done everything youre saying here over and over to no avail. I dont like having the seating die that far down either but at this point in the game km trying anything as the "conventional methods" arent working at all!
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:32 AM   #49
Tim R
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In that case, take a black marker and blacken the ojive of the bullet. Try to chamber, and then inspect the bullet to see if there are marks from the lands. If so then seat a little deeper. I don't remember a Remington having a particularly deep free bore.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:00 AM   #50
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have you tried chambering a case that has been sized but no powder or bullet seated yet like I suggested a few posts back. That would narrow it down to either seating depth or improper case sizeing

you need to find out which component is giving you the issue, until then you are just chasing your tail.

Anyway unless you have some bodacious neck tension going on there the bullet depth is not going to stop you from closing the bolt. It is a fairly common practice for BR shooters to seat the bullets into the lands depending on the barrel
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