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Old November 16, 2012, 02:37 PM   #51
Strafer Gott
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Makes me think of a certain Ohio LEO who get his gun back even though he has bouts of temporary insanity. Talk about selective enforcement!
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:09 PM   #52
Glenn E. Meyer
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There is no reliable mass screening test that can predict violent behavior. There is no way to administer a reliable instrument to every gun owner and purchaser.

Individual evaluations have been found to be almost useless as a mass preventive measure.

Only if a person is acting irrationally or making threats can we make some judgements.

Any system we could think of would have a tremendous false positive rate. Folks would be branded as a risk and that quickly would be used to deny them of rights and employment. Oh, John can't buy a gun - well, should he be school teacher?

Been studied quite intensively.
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Old November 16, 2012, 04:00 PM   #53
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Do you have any direct links to those studies? I agree with your central premise but I'd like to see some relevant data
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Old November 16, 2012, 04:18 PM   #54
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The efficacy of violence prediction: a meta-analytic comparison of nine risk assessment tools.

M Yang, Wong, J Coid - Psychological bulletin, 2010 - psycnet.apa.org

Their conclusion:

Quote:
The moderate level of predictive accuracy of these tools suggests that they should not be used solely for some criminal justice decision making that requires a very high level of accuracy such as preventive detention
Most items in structured risk assessment instruments do not predict violence

JW Coid, M Yang, S Ullrich, T Zhang… - The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry and Psychology 2011 - Taylor & Francis

You can find more through Google Scholar. But you can see that they think using the standard instruments would not be useful for a legal decision such as denying some of their rights. The only thing that has some use was a history of past violence.
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Old November 17, 2012, 03:09 PM   #55
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One of the basics problems, or flaws, if you will, with our mindset and the way our society carries it out is the concept that we ought to be able to prevent violence.

And that is simply not possible until/unless we transform mankind into something we currently are not, (and historically have never been).

Boil it down, what is best, to restrict/punish people for what they might do?
Or accept the cost of what they do, and punish them for actually doing it?

Sure, it's a greyscale, with few absolute black and whites, but in general, which do you think better?

For myself, I think it better to have freedom, and pay the cost. Others think it best to restrict us all (and you can consider those restrictions "chains"), because of what a few people might do.

My issue with this idea is that despite all the restrictions, we get the violence anyway. WE are paying an ever increasing cost in our personal liberty (including what you can own, and what you can do with what you own) for the false promise of security.

Bad men and nutcases still do as they please, no matter what restrictions are placed on us, it does not stop them.

It seems like they are making it against the law to eat pasta, so my house won't burn down. And then some nutjob (possibly in a govt uniform) comes along and burns my house down. And then they tell me it happened because I still have spagetti sauce in my cupboard....or my neighbor still does...or the guy down the block grew tomatoes...etc...

Prior restraint is something adults do to protect children, until the children proove they are capable of protecting themselves. It is not something that should be applied to adults, and particularly not to free citizens. Because if it is, then we aren't.
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Old November 17, 2012, 05:04 PM   #56
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Random violence cannot be effectivey predicted, and never will. There will never be a computer program that will be able to correctly calculate the inestimable variables inherent in such circumstances. The best we can hope for is to limit the effect of such circumstances. Rabid dog, rapid response, rabid dog down.
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Old November 17, 2012, 05:28 PM   #57
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The only gun law I support is the one that makes it a crime to shoot innocent people.
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Old November 18, 2012, 01:02 AM   #58
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The person in the article was blowing smoke out a certain part of his anatomy.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:52 AM   #59
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Here is the only restriction I would go for at this time. No more than 1 new gun law could be introduced in a legislative session (state and federal, two different sessions). The antis would be forced to combine all their idiotic ideas into one bill. What politician would vote for such an over reaching, career ending bill? Yes there are some but not many.
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Old November 18, 2012, 02:54 PM   #60
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How about this 'restriction'?

Make it a federal felony for any gov't representative or worker to even discuss/think/attempt to restrict/reduce the right of a lawful US citizen to own or carry any firearm they wish.
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Old November 18, 2012, 08:02 PM   #61
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Quote:
Make it a federal felony for any gov't representative or worker to even discuss/think/attempt to restrict/reduce the right of a lawful US citizen to own or carry any firearm they wish.
I don't really see that having any reasonable chance of being supported by anyone, myself included.
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Old November 19, 2012, 10:42 AM   #62
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That's not such a far fetched idea...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...highlight=rico

While it isn't exactly the same thing as k_dawg posted - it's in the same vein.

Edit - - Ok - I have to apologies a little.

I thought it would be a lot easier to track down where the idea of using RICO to go after congress members that co-sponsor anti 2nd amendment rights than it turned out to be.

I tried to search for RICO - but - I got a zillion and three hits - mostly Puerto Rico...
I could even be wrong on the site here also...it could very well have come up on the High Road...

Anyhow - yes - at one time there was some discussion either here, THR or possibly even Bladeforums.com about using RICO.
For newer members here.. TFL, THR and Bladeforums.com all operated very close together at one time or another. Many of the staff and the "regulars" posted or moderated or pitched in at all three.

Last edited by Hal; November 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old November 19, 2012, 09:02 PM   #63
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Ridiculous, if your not in jail and not under arrest I believe the founding fathers would have found you have no restrictions on owning firearms..

Every restriction directly impacts freedom...
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Old November 19, 2012, 10:26 PM   #64
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Quote:
if your not in jail and not under arrest I believe the founding fathers would have found you have no restrictions on owning firearms..
And neither did lots of people in this country, for a long, long time. When you got out of jail/prison (after serving your full sentence, as early release was simply an inmate's dream), you got your life, and all your rights back.

Not sure just when it began, but by 1968 it became Federal law. Felon, no guns, ever,the rest of your life, period, unless a court said otherwise.
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Old November 19, 2012, 11:26 PM   #65
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Quote:
Not sure just when it began, but by 1968 it became Federal law.
The actual term is "disenfranchisement." It dates back to ancient times, and the original idea was that conviction of a felony removed all rights from the offender. In medieval Europe, the offender could even be killed by his neighbors without recourse.

There's some suggestion that the term "outlaw" in early American practice meant the same thing. The idea was total ostracism without getting our hands bloody.

I'd really like to think we have a more modern view of crime and punishment as a society, but here we are.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:24 PM   #66
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As I said in another forum, the antis will never stop. They will just keep coming after our firearms. We must constantly fight for our rights.

It is not about safety or keeping guns out of the hands of the mental ill. It is about disarming the general population. Sen. Feinstein said it herself, that if she could get a majority vote in the U.S. Senate she would outlaw guns in the hand of ordinary citzens.
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Old November 22, 2012, 07:37 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior1256
As I said in another forum, the antis will never stop. They will just keep coming after our firearms. We must constantly fight for our rights.

It is not about safety or keeping guns out of the hands of the mental ill. It is about disarming the general population. Sen. Feinstein said it herself, that if she could get a majority vote in the U.S. Senate she would outlaw guns in the hand of ordinary citzens.
Sigh. The day will come soon enough I am afraid.
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