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Old November 14, 2012, 04:06 PM   #101
Guv
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What about a Ruger No1 in 25acp?
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Old November 14, 2012, 04:30 PM   #102
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^ lol never heard of a Ruger #1.
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Old November 14, 2012, 04:36 PM   #103
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a 25 ACP Ruger #1 would be a real conversation piece.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:24 PM   #104
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Don't Completely Dismiss the Venerable 25acp...

I use one as a BUG just about everyday (though I keep meaning to get a small .380 as the size difference is minimal anymore). The following story (verified 100% true) will make you think:

http://smallestminority.blogspot.com...ing-power.html
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:55 PM   #105
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44mag - Too much recoil and too heavy in available platforms. Expensive even handloading.
With jacketed bullets this may be true. I can handload my own hardcast boolits for about 4.00 a box of 50 rounds. Rounds comparable to BB's barn burners, the ones you speak of when you wrote too heavy recoil. When I do another component buy (primers and powder) the price may go up to 5 bucks or so depending on cost. I'm still working through a stockpile of old lead wheel weights though. If/when I have to actually start buying lead then I expect my cost per boolit to up above a penny apiece then. Just pointing out that those near dollar apiece 44 Mags can be brought down to...well 8 cents apiece right now.

A 25 acp may be very cool in a Ruger #1. I'm thinking 5000 fps (sic)
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:47 PM   #106
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The only cartridges with which I have become disenchanted are those which are touted by certain individuals as the "be all and end all"....or something like that.

I more or less refer to the phenomenon I call "magnum creep". In the old days, a 30-30 or 30-06, etc, etc, was sufficient to kill deer. Then, the magnum craze began. Suddenly, nothing less than a 300 Win. mag or 7mm mag, etc, etc. would do. Then, the magnum market exploded with all kinds of "new" and silly (yes, I said "silly") cartridge variations, because whitetail deer had (apparently) suddenly evolved to be equipped with armour plating.

A bunch of nonsense, IMO.

The same has happened with handguns and handgun cartridges. The lowly old 38 Special now couldn't penetrate a T-shirt....according to many... even though it was apparently perfectly adequate to stop bad guys for decades (and those bad guys don't wear any more clothes now than before...and have NOT evolved to have armour plating, either). The 9mm Para will now only bounce off a bad guy, like a tennis ball on a sidewalk (eyes rolling). Only a 40 S&W, 10 mm auto, or bigger will now do (again, eyes rolling). Next year, only a 50 S&W or a 480 Ruger will be big enough.

What's next, a 20mm cannon ? A 120mm fin-stabilised, discarding sabot, high velocity, spent uranium tipped penetrator......for home defense (or concealed carry) ???

This trend is SILLY. Period. The most important issue is TRAINING and SHOT PLACEMENT. It ALWAYS has been.....and ALWAYS will be. Period.

So, with what cartridges am I disenchanted ? Actually none - I don't blame the cartridge - I blame the ninny who is obsessed with it.




OK, so I am fully aware that I'll now get FLAMED to death by all of the lovers and defenders of the "bigger is now absolutely imperative" trend. So, go ahead.....let me have it (right in the kisser) ! It should be good for a laugh.....
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Old November 14, 2012, 08:14 PM   #107
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Quote:
I more or less refer to the phenomenon I call "magnum creep". In the old days, a 30-30 or 30-06, etc, etc, was sufficient to kill deer. Then, the magnum craze began. Suddenly, nothing less than a 300 Win. mag or 7mm mag, etc, etc. would do. Then, the magnum market exploded with all kinds of "new" and silly (yes, I said "silly") cartridge variations, because whitetail deer had (apparently) suddenly evolved to be equipped with armour plating.
I agree with this. Though I was never enchanted with any of the new SBM's (Super-Bubba Magnums, LOL!) Flame suit on!
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Old November 15, 2012, 02:29 PM   #108
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Quote:
I more or less refer to the phenomenon I call "magnum creep". In the old days, a 30-30 or 30-06, etc, etc, was sufficient to kill deer. Then, the magnum craze began. Suddenly, nothing less than a 300 Win. mag or 7mm mag, etc, etc. would do.
I totally agree


Quote:
The same has happened with handguns and handgun cartridges. The lowly old 38 Special now couldn't penetrate a T-shirt....according to many... even though it was apparently perfectly adequate to stop bad guys for decades (and those bad guys don't wear any more clothes now than before...
No the 38 was getting good guys killed in droves because it failed miserably. It hang on in LE because many lacked administrators liked the political implications of magnums. Many people just cannot effectively use a 357 magnum.
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Old November 17, 2012, 08:31 AM   #109
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.45 ACP. It lost it's luster over the years. When I was younger, and read and heard all the praise given the .45 cal 230 grain bullet as a "magic one shot, manstopper", I thought it was THE answer. Not to take anything away from it (I still love the .45 ACP and the 1911A1), but 35 some years later, after owning & shooting hundereds of guns, calibers, etc. and hunting / trapping, the importance of shot placement & skill now trump caliber as far as I am concerned.

In an armed conflict, I would place my money on, and be more concerned about, a cool headed marksman armed with a .22 LR or .380 ACP pistol, as oppossed to a self proclaimed combat expert, "tactical" armchair based, internet warrior carrying a .45 ACP or .40 S&W any day of the week.

Last edited by shurshot; November 17, 2012 at 08:37 AM.
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Old November 17, 2012, 08:37 AM   #110
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How about a skilled marksman who is calm and cool armed with a 45acp? That sounds good to me.
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Old November 17, 2012, 11:38 AM   #111
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9mm. Highly over rated but I shoot it a lot because you can buy the surplus brass very inexpensively.
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Old November 17, 2012, 04:32 PM   #112
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I have lost my interest in 357 Sig. When I first got into shooting I loved the idea of it but after getting experience with shooting a lot of different calibers I grew to dislike it because of how loud it was as well as how expensive it is compared to most other calibers.
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Old November 18, 2012, 01:43 PM   #113
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9mm "tepid performance"?

I recently replaced a .357mag HD gun with a 9mm HD gun.

With my glock's 5.35" barrel, and the ammo I use for HD, 9mm is coming out with roughly 500 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy (alongside many .40 loads and some .45 loads in 4" guns). I used 2 HD loadings in the .357: a 125gr SJHP (525ft-lbs), and 125gr golden saber (430ft-lbs). My current choice, 115gr 9mm corbon coming out at about 1400fps/500ft-lbs, is "on par" with the .357 loads I was using. Granted my .357 was a 4" gun, and the porting meant only about 3.25" of "meaningful" barrel. So the 9mm has a 2" barrel advantage.

As a browning locked breech type auto, it's recoil is extremely manageable, it's 100% reliable, I added a light and a grip-filling weight for balance, shot-to-shot time is competition-fast, the trigger breaks clean as a trigger can possibly break (thank you Dremmel), accuracy is 1"/25m, 19rds instead of 8, ammo is cheap, and it's not nearly as loud as the ported .357

I wish everything I owned was that kind of tepid.

I could have gotten a .40 for the same price as the 9, but I like to practice a lot. And 9mm is still significantly cheaper to shoot. I fully understand why someone in the military or law enforcement would want larger than a 9mm. But I don't plan on having to shoot intruders through car firewalls, nor use ball ammo. Military needs a sidearm that will drop someone with ball ammo (they should always use a .45, nothing less), Police need to sometimes shoot through cars or other cover (.40 is probably the minimum they should use), civilian home defense though? it just needs to make a thumb sized hole in 12" of ballistic gelatin, and have enough sectional density to go through bone obstacles. And it's actually a bonus if the round doesn't go through a burglar, 3 walls, and the neighbor's dog (or worse). ergo, 9mm is "great" for HD. At least in a full sized gun, with proper ammo.

and as others have mentioned: shot placement > caliber



I'm completely with you on the .25acp though. very pointless round. I'd think a .22LR would be better (and obviously cheaper).
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Old November 20, 2012, 09:30 PM   #114
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Jimpage; A "skilled marksman with a .45 ACP" you say? Hell, I'm running in the other direction and FAST!
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