The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 18, 2012, 07:04 PM   #51
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
what I recommend is carrying in a holster that is designed for carrying the gun you like but carry in a position that if you for some odd reason do have an AD/ND it does the minimal amount of damage like on the hip area or in a cross draw. No one wants to bleed to death because they have a gun pointed at a major artery and hits the trigger.

IMO carrying a gun is not fashionable or convenient, it is a life choice and when you make that choice you have to give up comfort for peace of mind. I had a little 380 and I carried in an IWB ace case tuckable holster. Just as fast as a pocket holster but pointed away from all the main blood vessels
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:15 PM   #52
Amsdorf
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
That is a good idea. I've considered getting an IWB for my little Ruger. I do like the Uncle George holster I use. It works very well and I hardly notice it in my pocket. I like to carry in the rear pocket and it is less uncomfortable than my fat wallet.

Here's a video I made on the Uncle George's holster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQKz7K3f1c
Amsdorf is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:18 PM   #53
arizona98tj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 975
Quote:
First off the position of the gun to the leg in the pocket carry position basically aims the gun in the direction of a major artery so if there was an AD/ND most likely you will bleed to death in seconds

Second: pocket carry is very restrictive in sitting and has no tactical advantage so getting to the gun under stress forces one to draw in a less then desirable position and cause of that can increase chances of an AD/ND
As I sat in my chair, reading your response, I slipped my hand into my pocket to verify if it was pointing at my femoral artery, as you indicated it does when pocket carried. It was not....it was pointing down the outside of my right leg. I then stood up, hopped around a bit, performed a couple of deep knee bends, stood up straight, and checked it again. Still pointing down the outside of my right leg. Your theory doesn't work for me. If a person finds themselves in danger of blowing out their femoral artery as you stated, then I would suggest they look into a better pocket holster, a better cut of pants, or perhaps a different handgun altogether. It isn't rocket science to make it work correctly.

As to your second comment....anything performed under stress will cause a person to function in a lower capacity. That is why we practice (at least I do). Have you ever performed live fire from within a vehicle? If you think drawing a handgun from a pocket, while sitting is a compromise, try putting a long gun into action from the driver's seat. I take my practice seriously. I'm sure you do so too. If you do, then I really don't see the issue of pocket carrying in a holster. Of course, if a person doesn't practice it, then perhaps it is better to not carry.
__________________
stu-offroad.com
Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web!
(now with guns)

Last edited by arizona98tj; November 18, 2012 at 07:31 PM.
arizona98tj is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:26 PM   #54
K4THRYN
Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2012
Posts: 31
2damnold4this, I realize that opinions vary on .38 vs .380. and in the same barrel length I'd favor the .38 as well. but at 2" the round suffers pretty drastically in performance, making .380 pretty comparable.

best .380 70% 1-shot
best .38 68% 1-shot

.38 has more sectional density, which results in better penetration.
.380 actually has more energy (when fired from an inch longer barrel), giving it better expansion properties.

.38's tend to make deeper holes, .380's tend to make wider holes. they make a very similar "total amount of hole".

both have the same starting diameter.

2" .38 and 3" .380 are close enough that I'd rate the .38 better in winter and the .380 better in summer (literally heavy clothing could tip the balance between these two).

Again, given the same barrel length, I'd favor .38 all year. but a 3" .38 is typically on the big side for CCW, and a 3" .380 is very compact, even compared to a 2" .38


personally i favor the LCR .38 snub over a micro.380 though, simply because I don't find any of the current tiny .380's i've gotten to shoot to be very good to shoot (ergonomics/accuracy/trigger/pointability/etc). I'd kinda prefer a .380, but I just don't like the one's i've gotten to play with.

Last edited by K4THRYN; November 18, 2012 at 07:31 PM.
K4THRYN is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:38 PM   #55
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
check out the ace case holsters for the little pistols, they are well made and only 10 bucks and tuckable

http://acecase.com/
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:58 PM   #56
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
ops here is another one

http://www.waff.com/story/19203508/m...elf-in-the-leg

one more:

http://whyguncontrol.blogspot.com/20...s-himself.html

this guy shoots both legs;

http://www.wave3.com/story/7291131/f...-off-in-jacket

Quote:
The 35-year-old wanted to use the gun to impress pals but ended up lying on the ground in agony after the point-blank range bullet severed a major blood vessel in his leg.
http://austrianindependent.com/news/...th_illegal_gun

Quote:
He then fired again, but accidentally shot himself in the leg as he tried to put the gun in his pocket.
http://www.wafb.com/story/16354021/m...ng-elderly-man

Last edited by barstoolguru; November 18, 2012 at 08:12 PM.
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 08:29 PM   #57
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,471
Who are you trying to convince... yourself? We got your point.

Let's just say that you shouldn't pocket carry, and let those who want to do it.
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:26 PM   #58
TennJed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2010
Posts: 1,523
You have yet to post a story that proves pocket carry in a holster is dangerous.
If you want state carry in your pocket without a holster is dangerous I would agree, but carrying without a proper holster is always dangerous.

What I have learned from your links is 1) make sure your carry gun is drop safe 2) leave your finger off the trigger until ready to fire 3) don't show off to your friends
TennJed is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 02:49 AM   #59
K4THRYN
Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2012
Posts: 31
Quote:
What I have learned from your links is 1) make sure your carry gun is drop safe 2) leave your finger off the trigger until ready to fire 3) don't show off to your friends
All of which should really be common sense in the first place.
I would think that any carry method would be dangerous if you failed to follow basic rules like these.




Also, technically, it's an inside the waistband belly carry which points a gun at your femoral artery (and genitalia, if you're of the male persuasion). Pocket carry points down the outer leg side for the most part.



I'm a fan of purse carry in clothing that's not CCW friendly, and jacket-pocket carry when it's cooler out. (PS purse carry implies a dedicated pouch for the gun, not buried under the 23652362 things that lurk in the main compartment).
K4THRYN is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 06:23 AM   #60
dean1818
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: Frisco Texas
Posts: 625
If you HAVE to pocket carry..... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION (updated because my direct approach offends some ) A small revolver is a better choice than a semi auto.

And....... ALWAYS use a pocket holster

I used to pocket carry a CM9, and was told about the "Tueller drill" which is used by some agencies to see how fast an officer can draw and hit someone If they are rushing toward them from 7 yards away.

(a realistic situation for a CCW holder)

The truth was...... I had a hard time getting to the pistol and drawing it quickly from a pocket.

And no, I dont buy pants a size too small.

I did much better with a LCR, but I am MUCH faster with a IWB draw.

Lay a semi auto nose down on a table.

Then put a revolver nose down on a table.

Compare the heighth difference. The semi sticks up much higher.

This sharp angle of the back of the semi auto works against a quick draw,
And can "hang" in some pockets.

That extra height from the back of the semi auto is what makes a smooth pull
under stress difficult from a pocket

I have had some people tell me that "when they get in bad situations, they
just put their hand in their pocket on the gun"

That may work...... Or, you may just walk by a guy, in a good part of town,
Who looks like you, who is on you in an instant.

What would you do then?

What if your first indication of trouble that someone grabs you from behind and then you are both down on the ground tussling? Do you think you will be
able to get into a pocket at that point?...... It aint happening.

I dont know about the whole shooting the leg fear, but I do feel it is unsafe to
carry a weapon that I cant get to and use quickly.

If you have huge pockets on every pair of pants, and you can quickly draw
from all of them....... All power to you.

I know for me.... It didnt work

I USED to be in the pocket carry group.... Not any longer.

My M&P Shield sits comfortably in a IWB Remora holster ( no clips), and its always a quick draw
__________________
An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus

Buying American made, wherever I still can

Last edited by dean1818; November 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM.
dean1818 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 08:29 AM   #61
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
Quote:
Authorities say the man had a permit to carry a concealed firearm. The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor.

sorry this doesn't sound like carelessness to me
How is it not careless to allow your gun to fall from your pocket?

I already referred to it as "irresponsible." It is absolutely, entirely careless to allow a gun to fall out of your pocket while "adjusting yourself."

Oh- and if you're referring to the drop as not being the careless part- I also think it's careless to carry a gun that's not safe from discharge resulting from a drop.
AH.74 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 08:35 AM   #62
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
If you HAVE to pocket carry..... A small revolver is a better choice than a semi auto.
I really love how people are so absolute in their statements.

While this may be true FOR YOU, it is not true for everyone. I disagree with several of your other points as well.

The simple fact is that in order to conceal in the best manner possible, some people must turn to pocket carry. And for a lot of those people, a small semi is a much better choice than a small revolver.
AH.74 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 08:55 AM   #63
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
What if your first indication of trouble that someone grabs you from behind and then you are both down on the ground tussling?
One of the BIG advantages of a revolver that many people overlook. Particularly as a backup weapon.

An automatic is more susceptible to malfunctioning in this situation. You have to train and practice on protecting the gun and making space to be able to fire it.

With a revolver, as long as something isn't holding onto the cylinder, it will fire repeatedly even jammed into someone.

Many people envision their usage of a defensive weapon based on what they see on COPS. While it is possible that you will have your gun drawn on an assailant before hostilities occur, it is also likely you will already be on the ground fighting by the time you even realize you are under attack as a civilian.

Just something to keep in mind when evaluating pocket autos versus revolvers.

This, by the way is coming from someone who only carries autos right now.

But I am seriously evaluating keeping at least a 5 shot J-frame as a backup.
__________________
I am no longer participating in gun forums.

Good luck.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 09:21 AM   #64
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 466
I have an observation, but no "dog in this fight".


So, pocket carry is "dangerous", even in a proper holster.....but stuffing a gun down into your pants in an IWB holster is not ?

Either way, the muzzle is pointed in a direction that could produce a serious wound.

There is risk in ANY type of carry - done carelessly, the risk increases.

Finally, I will say that the only way I carry is OWB, in a properly fitted holster. But, that is only because I don't have a pocket-sized gun (all of mine are too large for pocket carry). Even in an OWB holster, one could shoot oneself....if one is stupid and careless.

The OPERATOR is the key - and as usual, the MOST important factor is what is between the ears of the OPERATOR.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 10:16 AM   #65
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,926
In my experience, few guns carry better in a pants pocket than a small revolver such as a S&W J-Frame or Ruger LCR. While they will print to some degree (all but the very smallest guns will when carried in a pants pocket), their more rounded contours do not make them stand out as a gun in the same manner that the sharper, more squared corners of most semi-automatics do.

As to all the reports about pocket carry being unsafe or an accident waiting to happen, the devil is in the details. In most of the reports, we are not told whether or not the people who shot themselves were using a holster or not and in many cases we're not even told what type of gun they were using. Furthermore, many of these reports are rather suspect particularly the ones which claim that the gun just went off on its own when dropped or otherwise disturbed.

Most modern handguns including nearly all of the ones which have been reccomended here have multiple safety features that make it nearly impossible for the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled. The claim that a gun just went off on its own when dropped or jostled indicates to me that either the gun in question was an older design of suspect quality or, more likely, there's more to the story that the person who had the accident doesn't want to admit to.

Furthermore, a good pocket holster is a must when choosing to pocket carry. A proper pocket holster accomplishes two things: it keeps the gun oriented in the pocket so that it's not pointing at vital structures such as the femoral artery and it covers the trigger guard so that nothing can touch the trigger until the gun is drawn. Likewise, nothing else should be carried in the same pocket as the gun, particularly if one foolishly chooses to carry without a holster.

With a modern handgun, good pocket holster, and proper attention to safe practices, pocket carry is a perfectly safe manner of carry. If, however, someone chooses to simply stuff whatever cheap hunk of junk they found in a pawn shop into their pocket alongside their keys and don't bother to get a pocket holster, well then they're asking for an accident.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 11:29 AM   #66
PT-92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2007
Location: "Undisclosed Bunker"
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
barstoolguru

...pocket carry is an accident waiting to happen...
Huh?

I have done so now for 12 years absent any issues at all--in fact, I only belt-holster carry in the Fall Winter months which anymore are decreasing by days each year --( Gosh I miss the way Fall/Winter used to be like Fall/Winter! but I digress...).

Not arguing as each one is entitled to his or her own opinion, but I am assuming that by your logic, the off-duty cop in front of you in line this week preparing for "Turkey-Day!" who's packing a CCW in a horizontal shoulder holster that, so happens, is pointed square at your face is also in error (better yet, it's a SA 1911 to boot)...? I'm just throwing it out there for conversation...?

-Happy Holidays
__________________
NRA Life Member
“A free people ought...to be armed..."
George Washington
PT-92 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 11:47 AM   #67
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
Quote:
Not arguing as each one is entitled to his or her own opinion, but I am assuming that by your logic, the off-duty cop in front of you in line this week preparing for "Turkey-Day!" who's packing a CCW in a horizontal shoulder holster that, so happens, is pointed square at your face is also in error (better yet, it's a SA 1911 to boot)...? I'm just throwing it out there for conversation...?
since you brought it up.....don't hate me but:

Quote:
DETROIT — A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer's service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1658854.html
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 12:07 PM   #68
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,471
Well, barstoolguru, I've come to the conclusion that you should never touch a gun, because they are dangerous.
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 12:34 PM   #69
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
Quote:
Well, barstoolguru, I've come to the conclusion that you should never touch a gun, because they are dangerous
I am like Clint Eastwood; I believe in gun control, if there is a gun I want to be in control of it

Quote:
I'm a fan of purse carry in clothing that's not CCW friendly, and jacket-pocket carry when it's cooler out. (PS purse carry implies a dedicated pouch for the gun, not buried under the 23652362 things that lurk in the main compartment).
Kudos….nicely said

Last edited by barstoolguru; November 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 12:42 PM   #70
Seaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2011
Posts: 649
"...better yet, it's a SA 1911 to boot..." [PT-92]

Not a problem, the 1911 has a rigid heavy-duty thumb safety and a grip safety 'to boot.'

Barstoolguru...

you're right, cemetaries have folks who have got there via the AD route, then again the same can be said of of vehicle drivers/passengers. You take proper safety procedures, and carry on.

Front pocket carry has one real practical drawback ...its slow on the draw, and in an ambush, can be a killer.

A CCW should be carried so that it can be out and smokin in a half-second (or less).

Recall a Miami merchant who was jumped by 3 perps. He couldn't get his Colt snubby out fast enough. Was murdered with his own gun.
__________________
For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side.
Seaman is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 12:52 PM   #71
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
since you brought it up.....don't hate me but:

Quote:
DETROIT — A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer's service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1658854.html
First of all, continuing to link to stories does not support your argument. It just makes you look like you're trying to find things, things which don't work.

Second of all, that is hardly a reliable source of information.

Thirdly, it has been well-discussed that there is more to that story than has been disclosed. Do you really think it makes sense, on the face of it? Sounds more like a cover-up to me, and I'm not alone there. Did you read the comments, on the page that you linked to? People are not buying it.
AH.74 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 01:05 PM   #72
barstoolguru
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 180
Just for the record I am not against pocket carry and there are certain guns that are designed (yes I have one, a hammerless 38) for it but there are a lot of guns because of their size people assume that they are great pocket guns. the problem I have with them are in a stressful situation things like exposed hammers, sights and designs are bound to snag on clothing and when that happens the person's grip tightens up and can and will activate the "booger hook"
barstoolguru is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 01:37 PM   #73
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
the problem I have with them are in a stressful situation things like exposed hammers, sights and designs are bound to snag on clothing and when that happens the person's grip tightens up and can and will activate the "booger hook"
And that is why a responsible person will weigh these things and give them proper consideration in their choice.
AH.74 is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 01:53 PM   #74
38Mike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2000
Location: Wichita, Ks.
Posts: 396
ang, I'll second the Hogue grip for the LCP, also look at Aholsters pocket holster for the same. good stuff....
38Mike is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 02:05 PM   #75
Wyoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,259
ang4me,

I carry a LC9 in a pocket holster in my left inside vest pocket. I am right handed and can easily draw the LC9 "cross-draw" style.

I find the LC9 to be a good compromise between firepower with the 9mm and safe concealability. I carry the LC9 this way when the weather turns cold and I can wear my vest every day. In the summer, I cary a different gun, in a different spot.

I find that pocket carry inside my vest allows me to comfortably carry a weapon while also wearing cloths, mainly blue jeans, that are not so carry friendly. This works well when doing outside labor where kaki type pants would not be the correct outerwear.

I hope these personal experiences help you make your decision when puchasing a pocket pisol.
__________________
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!
Wyoredman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13962 seconds with 10 queries