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Old November 6, 2012, 09:48 AM   #26
jimbob86
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My manuals tell me that the "mildest" 7mm family is the original, the 7mm Mauser, or 7x57mm.
Much of the 7x57 data out there is not up to the cartridge's potential due to the 100+ year old '93 and '95 Mauser actions out there ..... In a stronger action of modern manufacture, I am sure the x57 could be pushed past the capabilities of the 7-08 due to case capacity. Data for my '93 Mauser is capped at 46K CUP.

Quote:
Both the 280 and 7mm-08 are great deer cartridges but I feel the 280 is a little more versatile because you can get factory loads using up to 165 gr bullets.
"Versatility" and "factory loads" are working at cross purposes for the individual .... the factory wants versatility in the sense that it wants one or two loads that work reasonbly well in most all guns in a particular chambering out there. "Reasonbly well" becomes the enemy of "well" in your particular rifle. If you want versatility for your rifle (the ability to make separate loads that work well for separate purposes), then handloading is a must.
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Old November 6, 2012, 11:12 AM   #27
MOshooter65202
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Both are excellent cartridges for deer hunting,i've used both and seen both take a lot of deer.

My thoughts on why the 7mm-08 Rem is more popular than the 280 Rem. which has better ballistics.

Because of the popularity of the short action with less recoil in the silhouette shooting sport which then spilled into the hunting community searching for a efficient cartridge w/less recoil has made the 7mm-08 Remington much more popular than the 280 Remington for deer hunting.

My Dad has had a Rem 721 in a 280 Rem. since the late 50s early 60s? and its been a deer slayer,I love that old rifle!

Fourteen years ago it was time to set my son up for deer hunting,I chose the 7mm-08 Rem.
My decision and reasons for the 7mm-08 Rem for a nine year old
1) Less recoil,I also handload so the first practice batches and first year of hunting ammo were reduced loads which helped a lot for a young shooter.
2) The short action rifles are a bit smaller for younger and smaller hunters
3) I'm also a 7mm(.284) fan when it comes to deer/elk hunting cartridges.
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Old November 8, 2012, 11:31 AM   #28
Lloyd Smale
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I own 2 7mags, 2 280s, 1 757 and 1 708. Is one better then the other? depends if i want to shoot a deer at 500 yards id take the 7mag hands down. If i wanted to shoot something bigger then deer and felt i needed a 160 grain bullet the 7mag or the 280 would get the nod. IF i was going out deer hunting and knew for a fact the longest shot i possible could have would be under 300 yards id take the 708 or 757. Personaly I dont think theres enough recoil with any of them to make it an issue. Even a 7 mag kicks no more then an 06 and if you cant handle that you should be spending more time at the range and less time on here giving your expert internet opinion. back to the original question. the 280s more powerful. You can juggle numbers all you want to defend your baby but the 280 holds more powder and shoots the same weight bullet faster. that translates to more power. You can argue that its not much more then a 708 but then you can argue that the 7mag isnt that much more then the 280 too but if you went by that mentality you might as well use a 243 as its pretty close to a 708 or a 22250 because its pretty close to a 243.
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Old November 8, 2012, 04:54 PM   #29
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If I were in the market for a gun for myself, wife, grandkid etc Id consider the 280 esp if the price was right.

Come opening day next week Ill be using my 6mm-08 (243 Winchester).
Im 3 for 3 at my sons with the 243-2 deer and 1 coyote-3 shots.

Ill take the sporterized 03 along for back up. It has one deer and one moose notches in the stock.
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Old November 9, 2012, 08:46 AM   #30
Art Eatman
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For deer hunting, I'd have to say that they're equal. The vast majority of all deer are killed at distances inside of 200 yards. Ballistics don't kill; bullets do. Inside of 200 yards, which is basically a "gimme" shot, almost any centerfire is as good as any other.
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Old November 9, 2012, 08:50 AM   #31
Lloyd Smale
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yup Arts got a point. Under 200 yards about any centerfire rifle with get it done with good bullet placement. Personaly when i know my shots will be at those ranges youll usually find me with a 250 sav or 257 roberts. Either are plenty of gun for those ranges.
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Old November 9, 2012, 09:46 AM   #32
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LOL at some of the answers on the 7mm08, 200yd gun, 300 or under. If you shoot the right loads in the right gun it'll do anything the .308 will to 500/600yds. At 200-300yds with my 7mm08 I still pick the hair I want to split.

Having shot deer with the .280, 7mmMag and 7mm08 I can tell you from experience not one of them has been less dead than another. And surprisingly the bigger wound channels and devastation has been with the 7mm08 unless you count one 80lb doe with a 7mmMag, 160grn Barnes X and 80yd straight on vertabrae shot, that was impressive. It also darn near ruined the deer.

Last edited by Saltydog235; November 9, 2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:22 AM   #33
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Just bought a 7mm-08 myself. Going to shoot it for the first time this afternoon. I like the small size, short action and 7mm bullet. Also, it is sufficient for most north american game. Most 7mm-08 loads carry 1000 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards. I have read that most expert game hunters recommends a 1000 ft lbs for killing a white tail. So from that standpoint, the 7mm-08 can take deer at 500 yards. That is if the shooter can hit the pump station at that distance.

I reload. If I didn't reload, I wouldn't even consider the 7mm-08 or .280. They are $28 a box at the cheapest. As for the SD, the .270 is nearly identical to the .280. The only real advantage of the .280 is the variety of 7mm bullets available. If I was buying a single gun for hunting in North America, I would go with the .270. You can get 150gr that is sufficient for elk and you can buy 130 managed recoil to use on white tail for children and women to use. Also, most standard .270 loads are around $18 per box. From a ballistic standpoint, the .280 has very little advantage over the .270 if any and I am not sure I have ever seen .280 at Walmart around here and .270 is in nearly every store that sales ammo. The .270 is extremely popular and will be around a long time to come, don't see the .280 picking up popularity because a few people think the .284 is superior to the .277. Most shooters don't even know that. Most folks don't know a .280 is really a .284/7mm bullet. I am keeping my .270 as standby even if I use the 7mm-08 for my future white tail applications.

As for effectiveness on whitetails, I believe this is more based on bullet construction and placement than on the actual piece of brass it is dispensed from.
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:34 AM   #34
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Its the old argument between 308 and 30-06. except in 7mm.
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Old November 9, 2012, 11:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Its the old argument between 308 and 30-06. except in 7mm.
We're all gun nuts, what do you expect.
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Old November 10, 2012, 10:38 AM   #36
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For target at long range (up to 1000), the 7-08 is on par with the .260 / 6.5 CM...and it doesn't get much better than that out of a short action.
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Old November 11, 2012, 08:46 AM   #37
the blur
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They make low recoil ammo for the 7mm-08, but it is NOT accurate. I can't get it to group at all. 10" groups at 100 yards if I'm lucky. (on a bench)
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:19 AM   #38
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the blur View Post
They make low recoil ammo for the 7mm-08, but it is NOT accurate. I can't get it to group at all. 10" groups at 100 yards if I'm lucky. (on a bench)
7-08 is low recoil 30-06, 243 is low recoil 7-08.

Seriously though, like any ammo might, it just doesn't like your gun, probably too slow twist. Lighter bullets might work.

I load ultra-low recoil 7-08. My 6 year old shoots it. It does fine. It'll shoot not much over an inch at 100, maybe 1 1/2.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:22 AM   #39
the blur
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>>Seriously though, like any ammo might, it just doesn't like your gun, probably too slow twist. Lighter bullets might work. I load ultra-low recoil 7-08. My 6 year old shoots it. It does fine. It'll shoot not much over an inch at 100, maybe 1 1/2.<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I tried Remmington Managed Recoil, and Hornaday Lite.
Both will cycle the action of my semi auto. But neither will group.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:32 AM   #40
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Ah. That weird semi-auto rifle thing. I forget folks do that.
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Old November 11, 2012, 08:49 PM   #41
stu925
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I've always liked the .280 Rem and I've owned 2 of them over the years. The first was a Remington 700 Mountain rifle which was a great gun as long as you didn't want more than 3 shots out of it, they'd start walking off the paper after that which made for a long sight in process. Incidentally that rifle was stolen and never recovered. The second a custom built benchrest gun which I still own, built on a Mauser 98 action that gun is more accurate than I could ever hope to be. I love the cartridge but if I were looking for something I could buy off the shelf ammo for it would be a 7mm-08 as it's a lot easier to find around here. Since I reload this isn't an issue for me and I would love to have another Mountain Rifle in .280 Rem.

I think the things that contributed the most to the demise of the .280 Rem (not that I think it's obsolete, not by a long shot) was a) Remington's decision to change it's name to 7mm Express and then back to .280 Rem which created a lot of confusion and b) Remington's introduction of the 7mm Rem Mag.

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Old November 13, 2012, 10:18 PM   #42
tahoe2
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280 Rem / 7400

I have a 280 Rem in a 7400 format and two 7x57 mausers, I shot a 7mm Rem Mag when I was thirteen and it knocked me off the bench
(I weighed 95# at the time) everybody got a kick out of that !! (forgive the pun),
I haven't shot a magnum rifle since. That was almost 40 years ago. My 280 will kill as far as I'll ever shoot, so will the 7mm mauser for that matter.
That 7400 is amazingly accurate (1" @ 100) and the trigger is not bad, 300-400 yards is enough for me, and less recoil is always better in my opinion.
Never shot 7-08, but then I like older cartridges like 300 Savage, 8mm mauser, 30-06, 6.5x55, etc .... all my guns and cartridges are proven killers.
I reload all my ammo, and bullet selection in 7mm is astounding! from groundhogs to moose, the 280 Rem can do it all, within it's limitations of course.

Last edited by tahoe2; November 13, 2012 at 10:23 PM.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:41 AM   #43
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I have to say, I really do like the idea of the .280. If it had been invented 1st over the .270 and was the common ammo on the store shelf, I would have the .280 instead of the .270. And the bullet selections is "astounding". I guess using that argument, I should get a 30-06 (it is on my to-buy list by the way). But also on my "really don't need" list.

Really do like this 7mm-08 I bought. Took it out and shot factory 140gr CL and it shot ok, maybe 1.25 moa. It is well withing minute of deer though and I have begun carrying it hunting already. The first batch of handloads gave better results, got to go back to the range and try out some more loads as soon as I can get there. I really didn't expect much drop in recoil but after shooting the 7mm-08, I shot my .270 and there was a very noticeable difference in recoil. More than expected. I think I am going to fall for this little gun. It is by the way a Mossberg 100ATR Bantam with 20" fluted bbl. It is the youth model, but it came with a 1" spacer for adult use. The youth model was the only 1 with a 20" bbl which is what I was looking for. I guess you could call this Mossberg's "mountain rifle". It is light at 6lbs. $300 brand new out the door.
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Old November 14, 2012, 10:45 PM   #44
tahoe2
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r0sewood

that sounds like a great little gun; 20" barrels are so handy, especially in the coastal woods of western Washington. when I rebarrel my Spanish mauser (next summer) in 7x57 mauser I'm going with a 20", light, handy, plenty of power, and low recoil. Those core lokt's are great bullets and nuthin wrong with 1.25" groups, that's venison in the freezer. Good Luck and great shootin !!
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Old November 15, 2012, 07:05 AM   #45
r0sewood
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Tried out some more hand loads yesterday. Got 0.550" with 139gr BTSP over 40.5gr of RL15. Also got 0.9" with 154GR SST over 39.0gr of RL15. Went ahead and loaded up some more of the 154 for hunting the rest of this season. I will play with the 139 and 154 some more and tune them to the most accurate load I can find. I am quite happy with the performance so far. I am getting better groups than some more expensive guns I have that I have tried a lot of loads on. I may stick with the 154 even if it doesn't shoot as good as the 139 since that is my accuracy bullet in my 7mag and less inventory to keep up with.
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Old November 18, 2012, 01:53 AM   #46
tahoe2
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Try the Hornady 162 Amax or Sierra 160 Game King, pretty consistent in my vintage 7x57 mauser's.
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Old November 18, 2012, 08:30 AM   #47
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while the 280 is not almost obsolete, it has certainly lost market share and continues to decline. it is a somewhat popular cartridge for custom builds, but that is the proverbial drop in the bucket when compared to the average hunter and what he/she purchases from the local gun store. as for the 7/08, it has a strong following, but nothing even close to the 308/270 win/or 30-06. the 7/08 lacks the power of the 280. one only needs to look at case capacity to see the difference.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:06 AM   #48
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Quote:
Try the Hornady 162 Amax or Sierra 160 Game King, pretty consistent in my vintage 7x57 mauser's.

I just re-barreled my Savage 7-08 to handle the 162 AMax...
If your twist is fast enough, it has an amazing BC of .625. I've read that some use it for hunting, but Hornady doesn't recommend it for that application.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:36 PM   #49
Brian Pfleuger
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I thought it's be fun to run some numbers in QuickLoad to get a theoretical comparison at SAAMI spec numbers and equal barrel lengths.

24" barrel, SAAMI max pressure, uncompressed loads:

280Rem
110gr Barnes TTXS, 3,405fps
139gr Hornady SP, 3,085fps
180gr Berger BTHP, 2,722

7-08

110gr Barnes, 3,246fps
139gr Hornady, 2,972fps
180gr Berger, 2,595fps


So, it looks like the 7-08 runs right around 125fps behind the .280Rem at almost all bullets weights. Both cartridges will push at least a couple of those bullets slightly faster with compressed loads but neither gains enough to change the numbers to any real degree.

The 7-08 gets the bullets to speeds with a whole lot less powder though.

Both max out the 110gr with RL-17, the 7-08 using only 49.1gr, the .280 using 57.8gr. The 280 is 4% faster but uses 22% more powder. The 280 is 25.4% efficient, the 7-08 is 27.9%

With the 139s, the 7-08 does it with 46.9gr RL-17 (an excellent 30.5% efficient) while the .280 needs Ramshot Hunter and is 26.7% efficient.

With the 180s, the 7-08 likes W760 and is an very excellent 33.7% efficient, the .280 is likes RL19 as is an excellent 29.1% efficient.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; November 18, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old November 18, 2012, 05:17 PM   #50
tobnpr
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Long vs. short, alot more boiler room in the former.

I bet a .280 AI pushing the 162 Amax would be one heck of a 1000 yard target round.

Which is better on paper- the .280 AI, or the 7-06?
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