The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29, 2012, 06:33 PM   #76
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 2,986
About Double Action

There is something to be said for a double action only handgun, revolver or semi.

When under the stress and adrenaline rush of a home defense/self defense situation a long take-up reduces the chances of an accidental discharge.

IN ALL CASES, good gun handling dictates that you keep your trigger finger alongside the frame and out of the trigger guard until the decision has been made to shoot.

A single action only pistol has you holding a gun that will go "bang" with only a sixteenth of an inch or so of finger movement to set it off.

A SA/DA requires a bit more deliberation, as the first shot requires that longer take-up, but only on the first shot. But after the first shot, the Rubicon is crossed anyway.

DAOnly is heavily favored for those who do not practice trigger control and gun handling a lot. Paradoxically, it is the action type that does require the most practice for accuracy. (Fortunately, I enjoy the practice.)

DA/SA Revolver can be used DAOnly with no change in technique from a DAOnly revolver, but can be used single action if you want.

Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old September 29, 2012, 09:51 PM   #77
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,258
Well you don't "need" the rail... but it is handly, and that little extra weight can add to the already easy shooting of the CZ.

Let a guy at the range today shoot my CZ in return for letting me shoot his SA M1A Socom... He never shot one before and said that it was a smooth shooting pistol.

What was said above about DA/SA is why I suggest the CZ... and the SP-01 Tactical model with decocker is a great choice, but the standard safety version is good, just learn to lower the hammer safely. (Its not hard)

I actually kind of want a SP-01... even with my current line up.
marine6680 is online now  
Old October 1, 2012, 05:50 PM   #78
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,258
Ever make it to Indiana?
marine6680 is online now  
Old October 1, 2012, 11:16 PM   #79
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
Ever make it to Indiana?
No, I was going to but work stuff came up. I build subwoofer boxes for cars on the side and an order came in. Surprisingly, even some stores in Indiana don't let you handle a gun without a FOID card. Many smaller shops do, and I found a few that I called that will have no problem letting me hold them. I may be able to make it down there on Wednesday morning. I'm leaning toward the cz right now, but we'll see.

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 03:05 PM   #80
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
I'm kind of glad that I don't have my FOID card yet, because I'm still not 100% sure what I want to do.

I'm heavily debating getting two guns now instead of just one. While 9mm is cheaper to target practice with, it's still not cheap. From what I can tell, it will still be $0.20-$0.30 a shot unless I reload my own rounds, which, not including the cost of the equipment, will bring me to $0.12-$0.18 a shot. Interestingly enough, if I save my brass and re-use it at least 5 times, I can reload .45 for about the same price.

Which brings me to a potentially different game plan and set of choices. I've accepted the fact that I will need two calibers in order to make it truly inexpensive to target practice all I want and become proficient at it. My current thought process is to start off with a .22. Something like this:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...11A1+XT22+22LR

I will have the means to buy something like that by the time my FOID card comes in, and it would allow me to start practicing immediately. After that, I would save up for something larger; either a 9mm or a .45. I would decide on which one of those I want based on whether or not I want to get into reloading. It's still a decision I need to make. That would also put the 1911 back as an option as the .45s can be had for fairly decent prices compared to the 9mm.

I guess to sum up, I'm now thinking of buying a .22 first to start practicing, while saving up for either the CZ-75 or the Beretta 92 that are already among my choices, or a larger caliber in full metal, perhaps a 10mm, .40, or .45.
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 05:10 PM   #81
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,258
When reloading... the 9mm is cheapest all around. Using good cast lead or even FMJ... using lead brings the cost down a lot. 45 lead is cheaper than 9mm FMJ but 9mm lead is still cheapest.

I think 9mm is a bit less than $0.10 using lead and reusing your brass.
marine6680 is online now  
Old October 3, 2012, 06:36 PM   #82
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
When reloading... the 9mm is cheapest all around. Using good cast lead or even FMJ... using lead brings the cost down a lot. 45 lead is cheaper than 9mm FMJ but 9mm lead is still cheapest.

I think 9mm is a bit less than $0.10 using lead and reusing your brass.
That's good to know. Anything wrong with using lead over fmj?
I've decided that I'm getting the .22 first for sure. That will allow me to get my fix and not burn a bunch of money on ammo.

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 09:10 PM   #83
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,258
Using lead... start with small batches.

You must check to see if the load agrees with your pistol with no lead fouling.

Too much powder, and you can get leading... to little, same thing.

The 45 might be a little easier to develop a good lead load, but I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. There are good loads available in manuals or online you can use as a starting point to develope your own loads.

FMJ is easier to load, from just a mechanical assembly standpoint. Its usually recommended to learn reloading with FMJ, then switching to lead.
marine6680 is online now  
Old October 4, 2012, 01:42 PM   #84
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Ok, now to decide which .22 I want. I'd like to get a 1911 variant since I like how they feel (I have an airsoft replica).

My options are the Colt/Umarex, the Sig/GSG, or the Armscor/RIA 1911 .22LR. Reviews of the Umarex have been positive, but noted that the gun felt cheaper than the GSG. However, the GSG's coating appears to scratch easily. I've found no reviews about the Armscor, but they seem to have quite a reputation and it's arguably the best looking out of the three. It's also the most expensive. I'm leaning toward it though due to what I've heard about RIA's reputation.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...11A1+XT22+22LR

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 12:08 PM   #85
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Figured I'd post an update here on my FOID card experience.

Yesterday was exactly 30 days from when my $10 check was cashed for the FOID card processing. I had sent in the application 2-3 weeks prior to that, which makes this now approximately 7 weeks. I had to wait for 44 minutes before I could get a representative on the phone. She checked mine and my wife's applications in her system, and we were both in there, but the background check hadn't been done. That's now in violation of the law as no response has been given in 30 days.

Regardless, she said she'd "get a background check done today" and I would have my FOID card in the mail in 7-10 business days. I'm not amused to say the least, but the time is drawing much nearer to when I'll have one of these in my hands.

I'm still debating between the CZ-75 SP-01 and the Beretta 92A1 for the larger caliber, and I've chosen the RIA/Armscor 1911 .22 for the target practice/plinking gun.
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 02:19 PM   #86
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 3,206
Quote:
Figured I'd post an update here on my FOID card experience.

Yesterday was exactly 30 days from when my $10 check was cashed for the FOID card processing. I had sent in the application 2-3 weeks prior to that, which makes this now approximately 7 weeks. I had to wait for 44 minutes before I could get a representative on the phone.
Illinois, I assume. Call your state rep and/or state senator, and complain. Let him or her put the heat on the ISP.

Illinoiscarry.com has a long thread on FOID wait time.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 02:47 AM   #87
warnerwh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2009
Posts: 278
My first thought was being that you are a beginner and have plenty of money was you can buy a Ruger P95 brand new. The P95 is as reliable as they get and they are only 350 or less new. You will have enough cash left over for a .22.

As far as I'm concerned a .22 is an excellent way to learn and practice. For one you can shoot thousands of rounds for little money. Also you can practice form without worrying about flinching.

Another way to practice is dry firing. You can do it for free at home and dry firing helps you improve faster than just shooting at a range. Handguns aren't easy to shoot.

It takes thousands of rounds to be proficient with a handgun, not hundreds at least imo. I'm just referring to a level of competence that anyone needing to defend their life or their family should have. Under stress you will fall back on your training.

Kudos for coming to this forum know what you are talking about!
__________________
Portland, Or
warnerwh is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 04:12 PM   #88
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Well, I wouldn't say I have plenty of money, but I don't want to buy junk either, and I would like to get into target practice. I will need to spend some time with a full size and weight .22 to get proficient at shooting. I think I will be getting the .22 first.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 04:35 PM   #89
NuGunner01
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2012
Posts: 1
New handgun

I am a newbie who started shooting only earlier this year and I find the thread of this conversation very interesting and educational - having gone through the same process myself. I totally commiserate with you since I also like to do a lot of research myself about any item that I'd like to acquire. For a number of good reasons (read my lips - "Navy Seal"), I acquired a Sig Sauer P226 Enhanced Elite chambered in 9 mm Luger for my first pistol, did some serious plinking at the local target range in the company of an experienced shooter with emphasis on safe gun handling, took some formal lessons in competitive shooting, participated in some local USPS/IDPA practice matches and then onto the real thing. I like to think that my CFE (continuing firearm education) has made me a better person in more ways than one. More importantly, I am having the time of my life. Whatever pistol you end up purchasing, rest assured it won't be the last. I have since acquired a G34, HK45 (the "modern 1911"), XDM 5.25" (40SW) and a few SW revolvers to boot and just recently, a Colt AR15 and a Remington 870 Marine Magnum - dreaming of participating in multigun matches. I am aso modifying the latter for occasional trap shooting. Based on my limited experience, these are all excellent firearms. However, for whatever it is worth, there seem to be more after market parts for Glocks, XD/XDM and Smith & Wesson MP's.
Oh BTW I almost forgot, I also have a 0.22LR pistol for cheap practice - a Hammeli Xesse. The problem with most 0.22LR pistols is that the disassembly and assembly are challenging for most beginners. The Hammerli does not have this problem. Good luck.

Last edited by NuGunner01; November 18, 2012 at 05:00 PM.
NuGunner01 is offline  
Old November 18, 2012, 04:49 PM   #90
TrueTexan
Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2012
Posts: 39
As for your 22 you might want to look at the Ruger 22/45

http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html
TrueTexan is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 12:50 PM   #91
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuGunner01 View Post
I am a newbie who started shooting only earlier this year and I find the thread of this conversation very interesting and educational - having gone through the same process myself. I totally commiserate with you since I also like to do a lot of research myself about any item that I'd like to acquire. For a number of good reasons (read my lips - "Navy Seal"), I acquired a Sig Sauer P226 Enhanced Elite chambered in 9 mm Luger for my first pistol, did some serious plinking at the local target range in the company of an experienced shooter with emphasis on safe gun handling, took some formal lessons in competitive shooting, participated in some local USPS/IDPA practice matches and then onto the real thing. I like to think that my CFE (continuing firearm education) has made me a better person in more ways than one. More importantly, I am having the time of my life. Whatever pistol you end up purchasing, rest assured it won't be the last. I have since acquired a G34, HK45 (the "modern 1911"), XDM 5.25" (40SW) and a few SW revolvers to boot and just recently, a Colt AR15 and a Remington 870 Marine Magnum - dreaming of participating in multigun matches. I am aso modifying the latter for occasional trap shooting. Based on my limited experience, these are all excellent firearms. However, for whatever it is worth, there seem to be more after market parts for Glocks, XD/XDM and Smith & Wesson MP's.
Oh BTW I almost forgot, I also have a 0.22LR pistol for cheap practice - a Hammeli Xesse. The problem with most 0.22LR pistols is that the disassembly and assembly are challenging for most beginners. The Hammerli does not have this problem. Good luck.
Many of those guns are unfortunately out of my price range. I would love a p226. I dont want a poly gun for my first gun though.

I believe the RIA 1911. 22 is a true 1911 and can be disassembled as such. I have heard that you can swap the .45 slide, barrel, and magazines onto the frame without an issue.

I am back on the fence regarding my decision for a 9mm over a .45 round. The Girsan 1911 S model sold at budsguns looks very attractive and the gun is very highly reviewed. Sub $500 too...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTexan View Post
As for your 22 you might want to look at the Ruger 22/45

http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html
I will keep that one in mind when I head over to the gun store soon.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old November 25, 2012, 07:45 PM   #92
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
Alright, I went to a gun store today and spent a lot of time with some handguns. They had a VERY nice Springfield 1911 .45 in silver that was used but looked to be in excellent condition, for $675. I was very tempted, but kept reminding myself that .45 ammo is not cheap.

The issue here was that I needed a gun that would fit my wife's hands as well as my own hands, and she has awkwardly large hands with long fingers. Despite all of this, the Beretta 92 and the CZ-75 both felt nice in her hands.

What I was pleasantly surprised by though was the Baby Desert Eagle. It was quite heavy (2.6lbs, compared to 2.15 for the Beretta 92 and 2.4 for the CZ-75 SP-01), but it had a number of great features and fit both of our hands perfectly. It is the lowest priced of my options and I honestly cannot say I could find anything wrong with it. Compared to the Beretta and the CZ, it felt less "busy" on the left side, which allowed me better placement of my thumbs without feeling like I was covering something I shouldn't be.

Right now, I'm solidly comparing the CZ-75 SP-01, the Beretta 92, and the Baby Eagle, and it's a difficult comparison. I'll be test shooting the Beretta and the CZ this week.

One problem is that the CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical is on order with no known delivery date from cz custom shop, so if I decided to go with a CZ, who knows when I'd be able to get it.

As for the .22, I held a Sig Sauer Mosquito 5" and really liked it. It's $85 cheaper than the .22 1911 by RIA, is a poly gun (but heavy), and only has a 1 year warranty compared to RIA's lifetime warranty. The warranty concerns me a bit, but the lower price certainly isn't bad.
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Old November 27, 2012, 04:21 PM   #93
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
Since you are considering the CZ-75, you might want to consider one of the clones. The EAA witness in my experience is an excellent pistol for the money. I own/carry a full size in 9mm Witness and have fired the compact in 9mm.

I do not know if the current production compacts will accept the full size mags. The compact I fired several years ago would. The following is a link.

http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/wi...steel-compact/

My wife's pistol is also a CZ-75 clone, TZ-75. It fits her hands well and she shoots extremely well.
ltc444 is offline  
Old November 27, 2012, 05:39 PM   #94
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,403
Try and get matched pairs. i.e. a 1911 and a 1911-22. They'll feel the same, and target/plinking with your 22 will go a long way towards muscle memory for the 1911 itself.

My first pistol was a 1911 from Sig Sauer. If I had it to do over, my first pistol would have been the same probably, but at least I would have known better. I should have gotten the 1911-22 first.

There should be a 22LR twin for the 1911, the CZ-75 and the Beretta 92. At least I seem to remember seeing those posted. There's a guy that shows up on here, don't remember who, that seems to collect those matched pairs.

Stay away from the Mosquito. I've heard oodles of bad things about them, and I'm given to understand Sig doesn't really make them, just put their name on them or something.

As for .45 ammo being expensive, go to Walmart. Federal 100 round value packs for about 30 bucks. The 50 round boxes are about 19.
JimDandy is offline  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:08 PM   #95
richardcorey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2009
Location: SW Ok
Posts: 113
XtremeRevolution: Howdy, and as Creeper said "Welcome To The Asylum." As you can see already, there are no questions here that are answered Yes or No or Dot or Dash or even Up or Down. Ask ANY question and you will get at least nine different answers, and I LOVE IT!!!
No question should be viewed only from one side, and the interplay of opinions, and experiences, and viewpoints always gives you something to think about and make your own decision based on your own wants and needs, because you are the one that uses that weapon. Buy what feel best to YOU, be aware of problems others have had, and what ever you start with PRACTICE, PRACTICE PRACTICE.
TFL is the only firearms forum I belong to, and you will not find a finer bunch of people to hang your hat with. Have fun and enjoy the ride.
__________________
sometimes your shadow leads,
sometimes your shadow follows,
BUT when your shadow says "Cuidado!!"
LISTEN!!!
richardcorey is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 03:22 PM   #96
XtremeRevolution
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Posts: 123
I wanted to pop back into this thread and thank everyone who gave me advice here. I decided to get a gun for target practice first, and that ended up being the Rock Island Armory 1911 XT22 in .22 LR. I've put about 550 rounds through that and it has been breaking in very nicely. Had a few failures to fire at first, but those have evened out.

Recently, I got back into the search for a full sized gun due to the recent price hikes everywhere and what appears to be a national epedemic on firearms. Let's just say it went up my list of priorities. I ended up narrowing my search between a 1911 and a CZ-75, and I finally settled on the 1911 after doing much research. Specifically, the STI Spartan 9 in 9mm. I will be placing an order for this tomorrow. The reason I chose thsi over the CZ-75 is because I already have a 1911 for training purposes and because the CZ-75 is nowhere to be found for a decent price.

Admittedly, this will not be the end of my gun buying experiences, and the moment a CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical is back in stock on czcustom.com, I will buy one of those as well. The Beretta 92...well...that's simply far too large for me, and I wanted something I could consider carrying.
XtremeRevolution is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12509 seconds with 10 queries