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Old November 18, 2012, 10:42 AM   #26
RMcL
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Funny how "shocking" claims of 50 yard buckshot performance appear to many in the shooting media.

"Hornady claims these loads are good to 50 yards as they use a special Versatite wad that provides tighter patterns at longer distances. ...a lot better than the 25+ yards I am used to with “standard” 00-buck loads."

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...hotshell-ammo/

Even more shocking to some would be buckshot ammo capable of solid 50 yard performance on game substantially larger than deer, such as the Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot round with it's trio of 3/4th ounce hard lead pellets.

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Old November 19, 2012, 02:37 PM   #27
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Another buckshot case to consider:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...gauge-buckshot

.410 Gauge NobelSport 3" Four Pellet, .400 Buck, Buckshot Ammo.

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Old November 19, 2012, 10:18 PM   #28
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Buck shot is neither bird shot nor ball.
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Old November 19, 2012, 11:11 PM   #29
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Buckshot differs from Bird-shot in that Buckshot is on the larger end of the size scale, and it is swagged "pure", soft lead while cold. Whereas Bird-shot is poured from molten lead from a shot tower, with added elements to effect the properties, namely hardness (Antimony), and roundness via increased surface tension (Arsenic). Buckshot differs from "Round Ball" (a single round ball), in that a loading of Buckshot always contains multiple projectiles of less than bore diameter.
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Old November 19, 2012, 11:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
buckshot was used to hunt deer in the old days.(( hint the name). mostly double aught (.00) lead balls in the shell.. usually only 6 -8 lead pellets in the shell..
Buckshot is still used to hunt deer currently. There are several sizes of popular Buckshot. My favorite is Number four buckshot in a three-inch 12 guage, with 41 .24 caliber pellets...it is like a swarm of bees. Even the 2-3/4 inch 12 guage has 27 pellets of Number 4 buckshot. Number 3 Buckshot is popular with 20 guage deer hunters.
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Old November 19, 2012, 11:54 PM   #31
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Click:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_shot

And an interesting historical link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower
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Old November 20, 2012, 06:59 PM   #32
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So when game regulations state "buckshot" as a legal means of take, it simply means any multiple pellet load so named by an ammunition or shot manufacturer.

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Old November 20, 2012, 07:20 PM   #33
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Depends on the state you are in. Some states tell you which sizes are legal.

Edit to add: Looking at the 'Bama regs., I would venture to guess that as long as you stay with #4 - 000 buck you'll be fine. T and F are offered in Steel so they would likely be considered to be waterfowl shot. The officer's interpretation will win in the field and I would hate for you to have to get a decision in court.

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Old November 20, 2012, 09:15 PM   #34
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Industry standards do not law make!

Shotgun slugs are a prime example. There are many states and govt. managed lands that require the use of shotgun slugs. These regulations were instituted in the era of the Foster style slug that were and are very limited in range. However, Remington, Winchester and Federal have all thrown "...long established industry standard(s)..." to the wind. Today's shotgun slugs (abeit in rifled barrels) have just as much danger range as the 45-70, .444 and certainly exceed the .44 magnum carbine. Virtually all state wildlife agencies that restrict hunters to shotgun slugs have not changed their regulations but accept the "new industry standards."

Likewise, most states that permit or mandate buckshot are mute on pellet size. For them buckshot is a multiple large pellet load described as "buckshot." It doesn't matter if the three pellets are .33, .36, .40 or .60 caliber or that the three pellet loads are packaged in a Winchester box labeled .410 gauge buckshot or in a Dixie box labeled 12 gauge buckshot.


So if the regulation simply says "slugs" are legal, I would not hesitate to use a rifled 12 gauge with sabot slugs. Likewise if the regulation simply says buckshot...

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Old November 21, 2012, 12:27 AM   #35
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Why not call your state conservation comission for a definition. They will be the one writing the ticket if your wrong.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:28 AM   #36
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"Why not call your state conservation comission for a definition. They will be the one writing the ticket if your wrong." olddrum1

No need to, the regulations say "buckshot" and the factory ammo is marked "buckshot." And yes, I have hunted deer and feral hog with non-traditional buckshot sizes on WMA and shown the factory ammo to Conservation Officers without concern.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:39 AM   #37
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SHR970 "Depends on the state you are in. Some states tell you which sizes are legal."

I have seen regulations like that: "00 Buckshot or larger"

Then 00B as loaded in this 20 gauge ammo from Rio Ammo would be legal:

http://www.rioammo.com/law_enforceme..._buckshot.html

http://www.shooterspagetx.com/rio/game_buckshot.htm

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...gauge-buckshot

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Old November 22, 2012, 11:25 AM   #38
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Market or Legal definition?

Well, what is buckshot?

We see the term used everyday, but is the term "buckshot" a market, or legal, definition?

---------------------------------------------------------------

The term "Buckshot" clearly has an expanding, market driven definition, which is broadly accepted by game departments as is the term "Shotgun Slug."

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Old November 22, 2012, 02:18 PM   #39
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Shot sizes constituting "buckshot' have pretty much been defined for generations. Not sure if the term is either marketing or legal...I think it's simply tradition. It's simply an esoteric term for shot sizes earlier shotgunners found adequate for hunting deer-sized game. I'm sure there have been, and will be, some variances around the edges of what we call "buckshot", but the traditional loads have been defined for probably 150 years...in the minds of shotgunners. Legal authorities may intercede and dictate, for their own reasons, what shot sizes are lawful in certain jurisdictions, and that's fine. Doesn't change what shotgunners know as "buckshot". In any case, does all this really matter?
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Old November 22, 2012, 06:50 PM   #40
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The best buckshot I've found lately is the Federal Vital Shock with the Flite Control wad. We've been qualifying with it for two years and it's really the best 12 gauge 9 shot load I've ever seen. Using standard Remington Police shotguns, it's easy to keep all 9 pellets in the 8-ring of a standard B27 target at 50 yards. Many times we have trouble scoring the targets because once we're though shooting a string of 10 rounds, the target just shows a big ragged hole in the middle of the paper.

That Federal 00 buck load is the best I've seen in a long time. If I were forced to use buckshot for deer, I know what I'd be carrying in the shotgun.
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Old November 22, 2012, 07:10 PM   #41
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Shotgun slugs hve been defined for generations (since the 1890s) as a full bore weight forward soft lead designs that were safe and reasonably accurate in choke bore shotguns. Along came BRI and sabot slugs, followed closely by rifled "shotgun" bores. Today there are dozens of accurate slug designs from sleek pointed bullets in sabot designs moving 1900+ fps to full bore hard lead 800+ grain slugs suitable for defense against the great bears. These are all accepted under the same regulations put in place when the only american slugs were soft lead thimbles barely accurate enough for a 65 yard shot. Today those long established slug standards are virtually forgotten.

In the same light, great strides have been made in buckshot ammunition. Nineteen sixty three saw a giant leap to tighter patterns with the introduction of granulated buffer, shot collars and a reduction in traditional buckshot pellet diameters. The early 1980s introduced shot cups and spiral pellet stacking for better buckshot pattern response to choke. These along with specialty choke tubes doubled the effective buckshot range. Just past the start of the 21st century air braking wad technology gave the cylinder and improved cylinder bore LE shotguns tight controled patterns for the first time. Heavier than lead non-toxic shot developments for waterfowl were extended to buckshot for greater penetration. The same wad technologies and powder developments that allowed ultra hard non-toxic shot use also opened a door to larger pellets and tighter patterning buckshot loads than ever before.

The acceptance of improvements in archery, muzzleloader, handgun and shotgun slug technology are not even given a second thought today.

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Old November 22, 2012, 07:55 PM   #42
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In the same light, great strides have been made in buckshot ammunition. Nineteen sixty three saw a giant leap to tighter patterns with the introduction of granulated buffer, shot collars and a reduction in traditional buckshot pellet diameters. (1)The early 1980s introduced shot cups and spiral pellet stacking for better buckshot pattern response to choke. (2)This along with specialty choke tubes doubled the effective buckshot range. Just past the start of the 21st century air braking wad technology gave the cylinder and improved cylinder bore LE shotguns tight controled patterns for the first time. Heavier than lead non-toxic shot developments for waterfowl were extended to buckshot for greater penetration. (3)The same wad technologies and powder developments that allowed ultra hard non-toxic shot use also opened a door to larger pellets and tighter patterning buckshot loads than ever before.
(1)What "...reduction in traditional buckshot pellet diameters...", was made? Link please.
(2)How about a link for this one: "...doubled the effective buckshot range..." Doubled the effective range???
(3) How did "... The same wad technologies and powder developments that allowed ultra hard non-toxic shot use also opened a door to larger pellets and tighter patterning buckshot loads than ever before...", result in "larger pellets? A link for this also please. It seems, according to you, the buckshot pellets got smaller, now they have gotten bigger? come now, double-ought is still double-ought. Number four buck is still number four at .24 of an inch. The sizes have not changed.
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Old November 22, 2012, 11:57 PM   #43
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dahermit,

1) The 1963 introduction of the Winchester Mark V collar to prevent bore scrub reduced the inside diameter of the hull. So as reported by Jack O'Connor in The Shotgun Book 1970 printing, page 303:

00B was reduced from .330 to .323
#1B was reduced from .298 to .289
#4B was reduced from .240 to .233

Recently the size of current Federal brand 00B and #1B were noted at .323"/50 grains and .286"/33grains, respectively. See:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm

2) In the same tome O'Connor reports his pattern tests indicated, with a given shotgun barrel, the effective range would be extended from 30 to 50%.

Federal introduced its Premium line of buckshot in 1984, advertising patterns under 15 inches at 40 yards from full choke shotguns Federal Hunter's Journal 1986. This level of performance was confirmed in my own pattern testing.

3) Steel shot wads introduced high capacity, static, thick wall wads to the market. This in turn led to the development of the Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot round by Dixie Slugs co. This buckshot load contains three 320 grain, hard cast, .60" pellets, buffered and contained in a steel shot type wad. I have personally fired many patterns with this load measuring under 5 inches at 40 yards with some less than 3 inches from a Remington 870 Express with a Briley extended full choke tube.

The images attached show a 40 yard Tri-Ball pattern on an 8" bullseye target and a comparison shot of Dixie Tri-Ball pellets next to an equivalent weight of 00B.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg triball3briley69540yds2.jpg (51.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Tri-ball & 00B III.jpg (49.0 KB, 11 views)

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Old November 23, 2012, 12:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
(1)What "...reduction in traditional buckshot pellet diameters...", was made? Link please.
Go to the SAAMI website and you can download their book of shotgun standards (as well as a whole lot of other stuff).

The standard sizes have not been reduced. 00 is still defined as 0.330" diameter. The way the manufacturers get away with calling their loads "00 Buckshot", while selling shot as small as 0.317" (or even smaller) is the tolerances accepted by SAAMI.

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Old November 23, 2012, 12:17 AM   #45
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Dixie has .60 caliber buck shot
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Old November 23, 2012, 12:26 AM   #46
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SAAMI Voluntary Standards

Buckshot: Nominal diameter + 0.015"

00B: Nominal .33" may run .315" to .345" -1 pellet tolerance

#1B: Nominal .30" may run .285" to .315" -2 pellet tolerance

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Old November 23, 2012, 11:06 AM   #47
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Thank you RMcL. I stand corrected and better informed.
What seemed improbable turned out to be true.
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Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?
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Old November 23, 2012, 12:17 PM   #48
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dahermit,

I can see how the phrasing made it seem improbable.

I also see that Michigan's hunting regulations trust the shotgun deer hunter to make an informed choice of buckshot or slug loads.

Just this past year, Alabama hunting regulations opened the "stalk only" season to buckshot use. Previously buckshot had been restricted to the "dog or stalk" portion of the deer season
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Old November 23, 2012, 01:52 PM   #49
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Yes, virtually all ammunition of any caliber or gauge you choose to name has been improved by modern technology. That is pretty much a given to begin with. And there has always been some variances in the actual sizes of shot, including buckshot, between manufacturers and within gauge...i.e., Federal 00 Buck would rarely be the exact same size as Remington 00 Buck. It's the nature of the beast. In fact, actual shot sizes within a given shotshell will typically vary a few 10/1000's...probably less now with modern production techniques than in the past....but they do vary. That's really not news either. The point is, these variances are generally minimal and within an acceptable range.

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Old November 23, 2012, 03:29 PM   #50
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Indeed there are tolerances + for all products.

The point in mentioning what is essentially a step down from traditional 00B size to traditional 0B size is that smaller pellets are now the norm for U.S. made high performance small pellet buckshot (ie 000, 00, 1). It is part of the price paid for pattern performance.

Advertised 00B diameters for European ammunition run from .29" to .34".

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