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Old November 17, 2012, 12:18 AM   #26
MLeake
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sissyhunter, your posts are almost impossible to read because of your run-on structure.

If you'd use paragraph form, I might read them in their entirety.

As they are, my eyes start swimming after the first few sentences, so I can't follow your arguments as well as I might, otherwise.

Coyotes don't elicit much sympathy from me, though. I live in an agricultural area, and coyotes are viewed as nuisances or pests. I don't like to inflict unnecessary suffering on any creature, but if conditions permit I will shoot a coyote on sight.
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Old November 17, 2012, 12:34 AM   #27
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sissyhunter

I own a horse farm.

I've yet to have coyotes around here, If, they do show, they're going to be shot.

Also I agree with MLeake,
Quote:
If you'd use paragraph form, I might read them in their entirety.
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Old November 17, 2012, 12:56 AM   #28
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What is it about this topic that makes me want to go chop down a tree.
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
What is it about this topic that makes me want to go chop down a tree.
You must chop this tree down with;
A Herring

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Old November 17, 2012, 07:02 PM   #30
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You must chop this tree down with; A Herring

Check the Book of Armaments, first!

Maybe the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch Brother Maynard carries with him might be more suitable on coyotes...?

Sorry... can't resist...
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Old November 17, 2012, 07:55 PM   #31
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I don't have any issue with controlling coyote populations. However, I do share some of the OP's concerns about how some people choose to go about it.

I've had to kill racoons, foxes, feral cats, and weasels (the coyotes don't like to come in close enough to the house to be an issue) that have been after my chickens/ducks, and I'd kill them all again. However, I've never gotten any pleasure out of it, nor have I taken it personally that they try to catch an easy meal. After all, if chickens weren't delicious and relatively easy to kill I'd probably raise something else

Every animal deserves as quick and clean a death as possible, and some hunters do seem to either like - or in more cases not care about - inflicting pain. I'm not going to pretend I've never screwed up a shot, but if causing another living thing pain doesn't bother you on some level there is something very wrong with you.

If you wound an animal - even a coyote - and fail to recover it, you should feel bad about that. And, if you're doing it on TV in front of a national audience you should probably be aware that acting overly callous about it is going to turn people - some of whom may even vote - off hunting all together.
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Old November 17, 2012, 09:11 PM   #32
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If you've ever had to watch your uncle explain to your sister what happened to her favorite cow, then you would enjoy pursuing coyotes out and about with your Ruger Ranch Rifle.

That's not to say I don't make ethical shots, but I would say coyotes elict only slighty more remorse from me than the fellows with laundry on thier heads who enjoyed dropping rockets near my cot.
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Old November 17, 2012, 09:58 PM   #33
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All in all, my preference is for a quick, clean kill, regardless of what sort of critter I'm killing.

I'm less concerned about the ethics of pest-control killing, however, than I am about what is called "sport hunting" for deer, antelope, etc. The first comes under the heading of "necessary chore" and is not the same as "my pleasure in the hunt".
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Old November 17, 2012, 10:05 PM   #34
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I would like to add that, coyote like canines are in every land around the world and we have been competing with them since the dawn of man, and hunting them is old as time.
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Old November 17, 2012, 10:16 PM   #35
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Do you have the same feelings about roaches, termites, rats, etc. Coyotes are in the same category.
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Old November 17, 2012, 10:20 PM   #36
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I am tired of my American Bulldog getting some cuts on his face and ears when he gets hold of a coyote and kills it. I think I will shoot some. Between the two I like my dogs better.
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Old November 17, 2012, 10:33 PM   #37
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I'm just a city slicker so I cannot speak for the folks posting from the "lands of predator/prey" but the bottom line for me is that all I would ask of myself is to get a "clean-kill" whenever possible.

If somebody is shooting absent any concern for a "humane-kill" they are in the wrong IMO. Yet life's not always like TV might have us believe and I realize that tracking and follow-ups via another round, knife are necessary when hunting/culling etc...

Heck, anymore I think people in all aspects of their life ought to just assume that the potential exists that "Big-Brother" might be watching via a drone (even in remote areas that just a few years ago were accessible only either foot or Satellites). I see more and more articles speaking to rural area lawsuits triggered by drone surveillance...
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Old November 17, 2012, 10:37 PM   #38
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I would like a look at just one rural lawsuit initiated by drone surveillance.

What is Stateliness anyway.
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Old November 17, 2012, 11:04 PM   #39
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A coyote that I let go out of my scopes view killed my favorite cat a couple months ago. He went missing and I found his body out by a fence line by a cattle feild. I set some traps, caught the coyote and shot him dead. I feel no remorse. Coyotes to me, are like cock roaches. Feelings you say? The coyote didn't even eat my cats body. It just tore it up. SO, if it can go around and kill whatever it pleases, and there are people like you who say "don't hurt the coyotes, they have feelings," I'll shoot any coyote I see. I will shoot to kill. If I wound, it will be like stomping on a roach and it crawling off.
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Old November 17, 2012, 11:22 PM   #40
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I dont think animals concern them selves with humane kills. Why do we (as humans) think we are so much better than the animals? Did we not all evolve from the same stuff or where we not all created by the same maker (which ever belief system you have).

People often say that humans are the only animal that can cause global extinction. I dont believe that every species of animal out there that is no longer walking the earth, where destroyed by humans. I also feel that there will be life on the earth long after humans have gone the way of the t-rex.

Of course humans kill other animals. We are predators. Our eyes face forward like other predators, our young are born weak and pathetic like other predators.

sorry I went of topic for a min there but I think its funny that humans think they are so much better than other animals. We try to put our moral code that we use for other humans on to other animals. I "think" we are the only animals that do that (I could be convinced other wise). We are super predators, nature made us this way. Why do we deny what we where born to be?

Do I try to hunt ethically? Yes cause a clean kill will allow me to have a much better chance of retrieving the food I kill. On a pest animal... I try as well cause its good practice for hunting other animals.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:07 AM   #41
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Quote:
jhenry

I would like a look at just one rural lawsuit initiated by drone surveillance.

What is Stateliness anyway.
Thx for the heads-up --It was a typo.

Here's but one example of how "Big-Brother" is using drone survelliance in rural America (this case pertains to land/livestock issues):

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...erican-citizen

-Cheers
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Old November 18, 2012, 03:10 AM   #42
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I am not a hunter.
Don't know if I will ever be, and I can agree with the sentiments of the OP.
I really don't see the "fun" in killing, personally. I can see the "food", and that might be the only way I'd consider taking hunting up...

I will say that calling a coyote a "brutal killer" is plain wierd as I don't know of any predator that is not brutal. They are doing what evolution has given them.
In any case, my view is that, on the one part we, technically, are the aliens in the ecosystems, not vice versa, yet we have the technology and skills to kill humanely: not doing so out of apathy, essentially makes us just as "brutal" and unnecessarily so, IMO.
We are the ones who should be working as hard as possible to make our impact in their ecosystem as minmial as possible.

I don't expect to change anyone's views, but these are mine:
Take them or leave them; don't expect to change them.
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Old November 18, 2012, 03:40 AM   #43
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Coyotes are dangerous predators. You dont co-exist with them. And if you lived in an area where they were a real problem, you wouldnt have started this thread.
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Old November 18, 2012, 08:56 AM   #44
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I'm not going to jump in too heavy on this, but thought this was pertinent.

http://news.yahoo.com/coyote-killing...opstories.html

Personally I can't stand coyotes, and I'll take just about any available clean shot that presents itself.

We had a big coyote problem last year, pretty much a nightly ritual of hearing them take something down. Lots of times it was turkeys, other times deer. Heard them really close up to the house one night after something, went to check out the area the next day in the light. Ended up finding the little doe still alive, with about half of one ham eaten away and most of her organs hanging out.........don't know how she lived as long as she did. I put her out of her misery, and used part of the meat as bait for that night. Killed me two of them suckers and felt pretty darn happy.

Thankfully they haven't been around much at all since about mid-summer, hopefully it stays that way.
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Old November 18, 2012, 09:26 AM   #45
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Many coyotes live in isolated areas and they do what coyotes have done for millennia. I'm fine with leaving those animals alone. The ones that start hanging around farms and snatch and kill domestic animals are the ones I'm interested in.
They most likely belong to an overcrowded coyote population and removing a couple of them actually helps them. Like Art said, it's more like a chore, but, you can get some enjoyment out of the hunt. It can be challenging and exciting, even though they probably won't hurt the hunter, it still makes your heart race to have a predator headed straight for you.

Now, it's been said time and time again that everyone strives for a clean kill, that's the mark of a job well done, but if a bad shot occurs, feeling bad about it is normal. If you fail to sleep at night because of a bad shot, then hunting may not be the activity for you. Would I feel bad if I maimed a coyote? Absolutely. Would I lose a wink of shut eye about it? Not at all. Doesn't make someone a jerk, it's just a reality.
Not every bullet kills. Coyotes are not very sturdy for bullets, they die the quickest of any animal. You put a shot between any two of the four legs and they go down.
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Old November 18, 2012, 09:44 AM   #46
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Agree with several posters that any action should be a quick certain kill. I have witnessed a wild canine attack at much closer range than was comfortable. Brutal and Vicious against a domesticated animal, in a suburban environment.

Are you suggesting we place a memorial there as PETA has requested for these fish killed in an auto accident?:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...vine-accident/
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:56 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoredman
Ever heard of anthropomorphism? That is just what you are doing here!

Coyotes do not have "feelings" like people. The ethics of the TV show you cite aside, maybe you should not be a hunter
Exactly correct.

Animals do not have "families" as we know them. They do not have dreams for the future or even plans for tomorrow. They do not mourn their dead or fear death as we do. They react by instinct alone. A coyote with pups "playing" and "loving" them today will eat the dead pups tomorrow if you shoot them and leave them out there.

Any lifer-long hunter should be well aware of those facts if they listen to their own eyes instead of Walt Disney's fantasy cartoon world.

Any hunter has seen an animal in a group get shot and after a panic over the sound of the shot or the strange behavior of the now dead animal, they go right back to feeding as if the dead one never existed. Even if they walk right over it, it's just a terrain feature, hardly worthy of a sniff.

I've watched a adult doe when their fawns get shot, jump and run a short distance, soon return, continue feeding and eventually wander away, no concern of what happened to the fawn or why.

This fantasy world makes me sick.

Watch a pack of wolves or coyotes kill a deer sometime. They will take bites out it's haunches while it's still alive and follow it around until it bleeds to death, they don't care how long it takes. They will begin tearing it's bowels out while it still lives, and they don't care. They will kill an adult doe whose fawn will starve to death without her, and they don't care. They'll kill the fawn too, if they get a chance, and they don't care.

Animals will kill other animals young, with no concern.

Think of the word "humane". It's a human word. It doesn't apply to the animal world. It is a figment of our imaginations, in that regard. There is no "humaneness" in the animal world, except what we, as humans, put there.

Animals kill and get killed without pity or remorse. It's the cycle of life in the world as it is today.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:05 AM   #48
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You should see what a burst from one of these things does to a Coyote.

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Old November 18, 2012, 11:24 AM   #49
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If the guy is looking for apologies..... I think he's come to the wrong place.... He needs to contact the editor for the show.....

Don't expect an apology from me.....
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Old November 19, 2012, 06:12 AM   #50
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We used to have cattle and the coyotes would be a problem. I have pets and two of them went to the coyotes. My grandfather raised pigs and cattle, coyotes again were a problem. Here in West Tennessee, coyotes are everywhere and they will attack anything; some people have even been attacked. Just because some dude on some tv show got a bad shot, either due to lack of skill or game on the trot doesn't mean that he thoroughly enjoyed it and licked his chops at the sign of an injured animal. I enjoy the hunt and the meat from the hunt. But what I enjoy more is when I know that I am saving my family's investment in cattle, crop, pets, pigs, etc... by taking out a few of the thousand coyotes in the area. Grow up, coyotes cause major economic problems for farmers and ranchers as well as any family with an outdoor family pet.
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