The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 17, 2012, 01:28 PM   #1
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Redding Type S FL Bushing Die Question

Just got a set in from Brownells for 22-250. Being its a bushing die, it does not use an expander ball from what i understand. What are the two different "buttons" for? One came installed on the stem and the other in a small zip lock bag. There is also what appears to be a spare decapping pin? Please explain the extra/interchangeable parts. Thanks
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 03:48 PM   #2
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,301
One is the expander ball(measure it) the other is for sizing with no expander.
steve4102 is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 09:11 PM   #3
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Oh. I thought the whole purpose of the bushing set was to not use an expander. Wonder why they include that with the set? Either way, i dont want to use an expander so i will swap them. Thanks
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 10:49 PM   #4
jdillon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2011
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 141
You can use them either way. For bolt guns it is not necessary to use them. For my gas guns I do use the expander ball since some of the necks are dented upon extraction. Running the expander through in the up stroke rounds out the necks. The key when using the expander ball is to lubricate the necks and use the proper size bushing to minimize runout.
__________________
"Emergencies have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded" - F.A. Hayek
jdillon is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 08:51 PM   #5
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
I just used the sizer die for the first time. I am still making adjustments in the attempt to get my correct head space but i noticed you can visually see where the bushing sized down the neck but it only appears to have sized about half the length of the neck. Is this normal?

I have the die about 7/8 of a turn up from the shell holder. Is it possible that the die is supposed to be screwed in further? My headspace measurement is the same now as before i sized. At first, i thought i just got lucky and had the die set just right to return the original once fired headspace measurement, but im not sure if thats whats happening or if the case body has even been sized yet?
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 09:20 PM   #6
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
I just tried a few cases with the die turned down to the point that it lightly touches the shell holder with the ram all the way up. Now the necks look great and the whole length of the neck appears to be sized but i have noticed a new issue:

Using the RCBS Precision Mic, my once fired cases read an average of -0.0015and when i resize, the headspace actually increases from that measurement which on the Mic is a reading of "0.000" It appears that even if i wanted to, i can not push the shoulder back on the cases with this die unless the cases were really stretched out because the die is already touching the shell holder and i cant even push the shoulder back to the measurement of the unsized, once fired brass.

The positive is that the cases chamber fine into the rifle that they are being loaded for and i can only assume that i have a good tight headspace with the resized cases at this setting.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 09:56 PM   #7
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 5,406
The reason case headspace gets longer sfter sizing is the die's a bit too high and the shoulder's pushed up as the body's squeezed down.

Loosen the lock ring on the die then screw it clockwise about 1/16th of a turn. Tighten the lock ring. This sets the die lower so when the press top springs up during sizing, it'll be lower and set the fired case shoulder back more. More die adjustment may be needed.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 21, 2012 at 10:02 PM.
Bart B. is online now  
Old November 21, 2012, 10:00 PM   #8
jdillon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2011
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 141
Cases will lengthen as they are being FL sized until the case shoulder comes in contact with the die. The RCBS Precision Mic is a useful tool when setting up your dies. I have not run into the situation where the fired brass dimension is less than then when the die is in contact with the shell holder. Even though the cases chamber easily you may want to check your resized cases with a case gauge. Also, check to see if your die is screwed in far enough to remove the spring from the press.
__________________
"Emergencies have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded" - F.A. Hayek
jdillon is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 10:31 PM   #9
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 3,168
In measuring how much cases grow, a honed out Forster FL die and then a Redding FL S die make the case grow in different amounts based on which is used first.
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 10:46 PM   #10
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Ive got it figured out now with your guys help. Even though the die was making slight contact with the ram, its amazing what happens when the die is set to where the press cams over. This added pressure pushed the shoulder back to -.006 which is too much but now i know at what point the shoulder begins to be pushed back.

I really love this RCBS Precision Mic now that i understand how to use it. Its telling me exactly what i need to know. Thanks for the recommendation on that, Bart.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 11:03 PM   #11
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,370
Quote:
Loosen the lock ring on the die then screw it clockwise about 1/16th of a turn.
As you found out, even 1/16 of a turn will result in a significant change in headspace. And now consider the normal die manufacturers directions to turn the die in 1/4 to 1/2 turn past the point where the die contacts shell holder. To give you a better idea of the "sensitivity" of die adjustment, use the guide developed by UncleNick.



Good for you to measure and set your headspace properly!!!!
jepp2 is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 09:00 AM   #12
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
cool, thanks for that. These will be a big help. You are right, the adjustments are very sensitive very quickly, more than i realized before using the RCBC Precision Mic.

When the press cammed over, the headspace of a resized round was 3-4 thousandths shorter than a factory loaded Hornady V-Max round i measured. Camming over the press is sure to never be a good way to set the die up from my experience.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 12:30 PM   #13
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 5,406
If you use Redding competition shell holders then pick the one that lets sized case headspace be .002" shorter than fired and the press cams over, you'll get best accuracy and decent case life.
Bart B. is online now  
Old November 22, 2012, 01:49 PM   #14
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 1,067
Bushing adjustment- I found that sizing only 1/2 of the neck on 243win gave better accuracy than sizing closer to the shoulder. Let the bushing float, dont lock it down. Numbers stamped into the bushing should face down.
243winxb is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 03:09 PM   #15
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
i had the numbers on the bushing face up - is this wrong? I remember looking through the instructions for that but didnt see it mentioned so i assumed it didnt matter.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 06:39 PM   #16
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 1,067
Numbers have displaced metal that makes the surface uneven. When the bushing makes contact with the die as when sizing, it can crook the bushing a tiny amount, causing runout. Numbers down comes from Redding, not me.
243winxb is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 08:59 PM   #17
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
It's also a good idea to use the expander in the S die when sizing new "virgin" brass, for obvious reasons...............
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 10:27 PM   #18
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
that makes sense. will just have to let the first batch go.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 22, 2012, 11:15 PM   #19
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,108
One of the great things coming from Redding is new expander

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/367...kit-22-caliber
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam
VFW
old roper is offline  
Old November 23, 2012, 08:21 AM   #20
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Quote by BartB:
"If you use Redding competition shell holders then pick the one that lets sized case headspace be .002" shorter than fired and the press cams over, you'll get best accuracy and decent case life."

Is there any way for me to determine which one i need without having to purchase the whole set? I assume they are also sold individually.
SEHunter is offline  
Old November 23, 2012, 10:10 AM   #21
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 5,406
SE, there is a way to find out which one to use, but it depends on how slippery your case lube is and how much gets put on a batch of cases.

Use a standard shell holder (.125" height) then full length size cases and adjust the die height in the press until the fired case shoulder gets set back .002".

Then put another lubed fired case in the shell holder and run the ram all the way to the top and leave it there; do not lower the ram at all.

Using feeler gauges, measure the space between the shell holder and bottom of the sizing die. If a .004" feeler gauge just goes in, that means there's .004" between the shell holder and die.

The shell holder to use is one that's .125" plus .004"; .129" high. It is marked "+.004"

Check this page on Redfield's web site

http://www.redding-reloading.com/ind...ellholder-sets

Note the part that reads: "is clearly marked to indicate the amount it will decrease case-to-chamber headspace." I think that should say the amount it will increase case head to case shoulder headspace. It makes the bottom of the shell holder further away from the die's shoulder. You really are not changing anything in the barrel chamber's dimensions. I'm gonna send this info to Redding and hopefully they'll correct the info on this page.

Full length size 5 fired cases and measure each one's case headspace with your Mic. If the average is .002" less than the average of what the fired cases have, then you're set to go.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM.
Bart B. is online now  
Old November 24, 2012, 12:03 AM   #22
SEHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Posts: 221
Good idea. I will do this tomorrow after i buy a new set of feeler guages.

Question.. earlier today, i was in the basement messing around with some cases and was measuring the headspace on a few that i had sized and got to thinking about the Redding competition shell holders again.. i still have the case set aside that i sized by camming the press over while using the standard shell holder. With the RCBC precision mic, the head space of this case was -0.005" (way over-sized) while my unsized once fired cases measure an average of -0.001" so would using these two measurements be a good method to say that i would need a Redding competition shell holder that is 0.002" to allow me to cam the press over and have the head space measurement im looking for of -0.003" ? (0.002" shorter than a fired case)

I realize that to know for sure how accurate it is, i would eventually just have to get the shell holder and use it then measure the sized case, but in my logic, i thought this told me which one i need. Does this work out like im thinking it does?
SEHunter is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11111 seconds with 9 queries