Is C&R firearm action a C&R?

HankC1 · November 16, 2012, 09:21 PM

I had old Mauser receivers received as C&Rs in the past. Recently, a dealer said C&R only applies to complete firearm, not the action or receiver only and insisted shipping to FFL only. Is this correct? The old Mauser receivers I bought as C&Rs are built with new stocks and barrels and become modern firearms. Do I need to do anything in my C&R log while keeping them? I suppose they cannot be transferred as C&Rs anymore if one day I want to sell them.

LarryNTX · November 16, 2012, 10:49 PM

The dealer is right. This might help.

Quote:

Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?

The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications
ATF took part of a ruling about importation and combined it with their definition of a C&R to come up with a ruling that receivers are not considered C&R.
How do you log them? Doggone if I know, you're sort of in a Catch 22 on this.

**James K** · November 16, 2012, 10:56 PM

The dealer is correct; I don't think BATFE spends a lot of time worrying about it, but their official position is that people collect guns, not receivers.

The new barrels and stocks raise a question. If the barrels and stocks are sporter type, then the nature of the guns has changed, and they ceased to be C&R when the new parts were put on . But if the new parts are identical to the old military parts, then the nature of the guns has not changed, only parts have been replaced and they are still C&R. (Or at least that is the way I understand it.)

The rulings in that area are confusing, and I really can't blame the seller in this case for exercising caution and wanting to ship to a licensed dealer.

The question at this point is that if the OP had receivers shipped to him under his C&R license, the shipper has made an error. So what to do about it? I don't know. It might be OK just to log the receivers as if they were C&R rifles and let it go at that, but maybe a call to BATFE is in order if there is a lot of concern.

Jim

tobnpr · November 16, 2012, 11:39 PM

Ruling seems pretty clear, to me:

Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.

November 16, 2012, 09:21 PM	#1
HankC1 Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2005 Posts: 270	Is C&R firearm action a C&R? I had old Mauser receivers received as C&Rs in the past. Recently, a dealer said C&R only applies to complete firearm, not the action or receiver only and insisted shipping to FFL only. Is this correct? The old Mauser receivers I bought as C&Rs are built with new stocks and barrels and become modern firearms. Do I need to do anything in my C&R log while keeping them? I suppose they cannot be transferred as C&Rs anymore if one day I want to sell them. Last edited by HankC1; November 18, 2012 at 12:28 AM.

November 16, 2012, 10:56 PM	#3
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,428	The dealer is correct; I don't think BATFE spends a lot of time worrying about it, but their official position is that people collect guns, not receivers. The new barrels and stocks raise a question. If the barrels and stocks are sporter type, then the nature of the guns has changed, and they ceased to be C&R when the new parts were put on . But if the new parts are identical to the old military parts, then the nature of the guns has not changed, only parts have been replaced and they are still C&R. (Or at least that is the way I understand it.) The rulings in that area are confusing, and I really can't blame the seller in this case for exercising caution and wanting to ship to a licensed dealer. The question at this point is that if the OP had receivers shipped to him under his C&R license, the shipper has made an error. So what to do about it? I don't know. It might be OK just to log the receivers as if they were C&R rifles and let it go at that, but maybe a call to BATFE is in order if there is a lot of concern. Jim __________________ Jim K

November 16, 2012, 11:39 PM	#4
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 2,211	Ruling seems pretty clear, to me: Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification? The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon. It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.