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Old November 10, 2012, 09:05 PM   #1
militant
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.44 mag velocities?

I do not have a chronograph. What kind of veleocity would I be looking at with .44 mag out of a 24 inch barrel with factory ammo?
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:12 PM   #2
jmr40
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http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

This is about as good a guess as you'll get without a chronograph. They show about 1600 fps from a 20" gun, but individual guns can vary quite a bit. A barrel much longer than 18-20" will gain a small amount, but not as much as you'd see between handgun lengths and carbine lengths.
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Old November 11, 2012, 08:30 AM   #3
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Neat site. Thanks.
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Old November 11, 2012, 06:22 PM   #4
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Recent tests with my Remington Model 788 and its 22-inch barrel gave the following results: (Averages of at least 8 shots)

Magtech 240-gr SJSP: 1606 fps
Remington 240-gr SP: 1774 fps
Winchester Super-X 240-gr SP: 1866 fps
Hornady LEVERevolution 225-gr: 1759 fps

Handload, 19.6 gr AA-9 w. Hornady 240-gr XTP: 1695 fps.

Your 24-in barrel would probably give an additional 20-40 fps.

Yes, the Winchester ammo is plenty hot. It gave 1351 fps in my Model 29 with 6-in barrel. Model 29s, in my experience, don't often beat 1300 with factory ammo.
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Old November 12, 2012, 08:14 PM   #5
militant
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Another question. My rifle looks to be microgrooved. I have read that some 44 ammo can tumble out of the barrel. What has worked best in your rifles? Right now I am using the Hornady Custome 240 gr.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:39 PM   #6
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Tumble, schmumble. Don't believe that dung. Micro-Groove is proven. I even shoot lead out of my 1894 44Mag.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:47 PM   #7
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I'm wondering if hand loads, using slower burning powders, would do better in a rifle. It looks like most of McShooty's ammo would be "normal" pistol ammo.

Is AA-9 (is this AA #9?) a slow powder? I'm unfamiliar with it.
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Old November 14, 2012, 09:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
My rifle looks to be microgrooved. I have read that some 44 ammo can tumble out of the barrel.
I had a poor experience with lead and microgroove barrels. Lead bullets did strip if I pushed them too fast. I tried some 290 lead and that was a scattergun experience.

I had the barrel changed to a Ballard barrel, it handles lead better.


I am of the opinion that Marlin needs thicker lands and deeper grooves and a faster twist in their 44 Mag barrels. But when you talk to them they say they are following SAAMI specs.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I also got blown groups in my microgroove Marlin 336 when I pushed lead bullets above 1600 fps.
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Old November 14, 2012, 05:59 PM   #9
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My Chronograph shows my handloaded 270 grain Speer GDSP at 1625 fps. This is from my Marlin 1894, with 20 inch barrel.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Another question. My rifle looks to be microgrooved. I have read that some 44 ammo can tumble out of the barrel. What has worked best in your rifles?
Oh, they will not. The only bullet that might tumble would be a short (light) full wadcutter bullet being shot at 50 yards or more. That is because of the bullet design though and has nothing to do with the microgroove rifling. My experience with microgroove barrels is that they will shoot lead fine if they are sized fat. I've driven .311's in a 336CS 30/30 to a tad over 1700 with no leading, microgroove rifling.
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Old November 14, 2012, 09:36 PM   #11
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The only bullet that might tumble would be a short (light) full wadcutter bullet being shot at 50 yards or more.


I thought the heavier and longer the bullet, the faster the rifling twist has to be to stabilize it, so if anything, a short wadcutter would be overstabilized.

Some hollow base bullets will actually fly nose first even when shot from a smoothbore. For example, you can shoot .177 pellets from a smoothbore BB gun all day and every one will hit the target nose first, at nearly any range you shoot from. That's because the heavy nose and hollow tail makes them naturally stable even without spin.

Maybe it's the tippe top phenominom, these mushroom shaped tops are stable without any spin but when you spin them, they start spinning on their sides and then flip upside down and are stable that way as long as they are spinning. Maybe hollow base wadcutters do the same thing and need to be shot backwards to stay stable at long range, especially when high velocity gives them a very fast spin rate.
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Old November 14, 2012, 10:02 PM   #12
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I thought the heavier and longer the bullet, the faster the rifling twist has to be to stabilize it...
This is correct. I think it's the profile of the wadcutters that does it, they're just not very aerodynamic. Not usually a problem because not a lot of people shoot to even 50 yds with pistol rounds. Lyman did actually upgrade this design (the 429/180WC) to be more aerodynamic by adding a pointy nose, while keeping the full caliber sharp shoulder, now a 200 gr boolit. That one is prolly no good for a lever action though, being pointed.
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Old November 15, 2012, 05:22 PM   #13
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jglsprings: Yes, AA#9 is slow, among handgun powders, that is. It is the AA number commonly used for magnum loads. I have had good results with .357 and .44 magnum loads. Also, from my limited experience with microgroove Marlins, I think best results are obtained with jacketed bullets in stout loads. I think Marlin's Cowboy series guns have rifling more appropriate for cast bullets.
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Old November 16, 2012, 02:29 AM   #14
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Soft lead bullets dont do to well at higher speeds. Even if gas checked. Linotype is a bit too hard, but you can mix soft lead with linotype (3pts lead to 1pt linotype), and it will reduce your leading and take higher speeds without so much distortion and trying to jump lands.
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
I do not have a chronograph. What kind of velocity would I be looking at with .44 mag out of a 24 inch barrel with factory ammo?
From my Marlin 336 in .44 magnum, with its 20" Micro-groove" barrel, I've chronographed Winchester White Box 240 gr. JHP's at 1715 fps. Accuracy was inthe 2-3" group size for three shots at 100 yds. I was using a 2.5x scope and shot off an improvised rest.

As to tumbling...I just have never seen it in 35+ years of loading for the .44 Magnum.

Cast bullets through Micro-groove rifling?...I've done that for nearly as long. To be successful, you need a bullet's .001" or so larger than the groove diameter of your rifle. My Marlin measures .432" across the grooves. I size my cast bullets to that dia. +.0005" and get sub 1" groups at 50 yds. They're as accurate as the jacketed variety. Too, you need a GC on the bullet...at least in the work I've done. When properly sized, lubed and gas checked, I've pushed them to factory jacketed velocities.

Soft alloys don't do as well as harder ones in a rifle in .44 Magnum, but I've never had to resort to Linotype. I use wheel weights with just enough tin added to allow full fill out in the mold, and I quench in water. Brinnell hardness is approx 12-14...i.e. medium in hardness, but the Gas Check employed makes them capable of higher velocity...1500-1600 fps, from that 20" barrel, and they're accurate and non-leading. They're nearly as fast as the aforementioned Winchester White Box 240's. I use the NRA/Lyman 50/50 mix of Alox and ?beeswax? for all my lubing, but have just as good results with Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) thinned with mineral spirits by 20%; and that LLA works well even with Lyman's #429215gc and 429244gc (old Thompson designs but very accurate in every .44 I've ever worked with, rifle or revolver.

For hand loaded jacketed bullets I've had superb results using both Remington's 240 gr JHP's and JSP's, as well as both Hornady's 200 gr and 240 gr. XTP's. Accuracy was as at least as good as factory offerings(~2" gps at 100 yds, scoped). I've killed two deer with that Remington 240 gr JHP, chest area hits that went through and through...complete penetration, and bleed out in 50 yds or less. For jacketed bullet loading, I've been using AA#9 for years with complete success. Burning rate is similar to H-110, but different data must be used when loading with it.

HTH's Rod
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