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Old November 12, 2012, 11:08 AM   #1
WeedWacker
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4473 and state lines

I have a prospective buyer for a firearm. I live in Washington and he lives 3 miles east in Idaho. I understand the ATF requires a transfer via FFL over state lines, but could I walk over to a FFL on the other side of the river and do the transfer there instead of running through two FFLs and paying two fees? (at least that's how it will work as described by the local dealers...)

Also: I have a financial interest in the local indoor range and I lent a revolver to them as a rental firearm until they got a replacement in the same caliber. Now that the replacement is in and I am looking at getting my firearm back, do we need to perform a transfer across state lines? I have sent pistols back through the local tri-state outfitters and they haven't performed an FFL transfer since the firearm never changed ownership. Since the firearm at the range was never up for sale per se, is a transfer required? Not really happy if I will need to make the decision to pay for the transfer or put gas in my car at this point.
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Old November 12, 2012, 02:23 PM   #2
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Unless there is something in Idaho's laws about a FFL receiving a gun across state lines from a private party (I rather highly doubt there is), it should be perfectly legal.

Some FFLs don't like to receive shipped firearms from private persons, but I don't know of any who would throw a fit about the owner himself bringing it in- if that's the case, the FFL would never have any used guns to sell.

I once sold a gun much like that- drove it across into a neighboring state, handed it to the FFL, and then the FFL then handled the transfer on his end.
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Old November 12, 2012, 03:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Also: I have a financial interest in the local indoor range and I lent a revolver to them as a rental firearm until they got a replacement in the same caliber. Now that the replacement is in and I am looking at getting my firearm back, do we need to perform a transfer across state lines? I have sent pistols back through the local tri-state outfitters and they haven't performed an FFL transfer since the firearm never changed ownership. Since the firearm at the range was never up for sale per se, is a transfer required?
If they logged it into their acquisition and disposition book ("bound book"), then they have to show who it goes to when it leaves their possession. That will have to be someone who resides in their state or another FFL. It may also depend on how they characterized recieving the revolver. They may be able to return it directly to you if they had it for "repair," for example. Talk to them (the FFL in Idaho who has the gun at the moment) about it. It's their recordkeeping and FFL that is at stake.
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Old November 12, 2012, 03:07 PM   #4
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Is the "firearm" a rifle, shotgun, or handgun?

Yes, the rules are different.
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Old November 12, 2012, 03:40 PM   #5
natman
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The rules are different for handguns and long guns if you buy a gun out of your home state.

However, what the OP is proposing is to have the transaction take place at an FFL in the BUYER'S home state. In that case it's no different than shipping the gun to the FFL and probably a lot cheaper.

That's at the Federal level and I rather doubt Idaho has any state laws against it.
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Old November 12, 2012, 04:17 PM   #6
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As long as the FFL is in the buyer's home state, everything is good to go. It is also legal for a private owner to ship a gun across state lines to an FFL for the purposes of a transfer, but I have heard of many instances where the receiving FFL is leary of receiving a gun from any source other than an FFL, believing that there is some legal requirement for it to do so. There isn't.
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Old November 12, 2012, 05:09 PM   #7
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Yes you should be able to legally. Happens all the between NC and SC.
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Old November 12, 2012, 08:16 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedWacker
I have a prospective buyer for a firearm. I live in Washington and he lives 3 miles east in Idaho. I understand the ATF requires a transfer via FFL over state lines, but could I walk over to a FFL on the other side of the river and do the transfer there instead of running through two FFLs and paying two fees?...
Yes, if the transfer FFL is agreeable. It would be legal to do it as you've described, but some FFLs have more restrictive business policies about how they want to receive guns for transfer. So work out the details with the FFL and buyer ahead of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedWacker
...have a financial interest in the local indoor range and I lent a revolver to them as a rental firearm until they got a replacement in the same caliber. Now that the replacement is in and I am looking at getting my firearm back, do we need to perform a transfer across state lines?...
Yes, you will need to have the handgun sent to a Washington State FFL to transfer it to you. The interstate transfer laws are very broad and include any transfer of possession (with some narrow exceptions like bequests under a will).

See --
  1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
    Quote:
    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...
  2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
    Quote:
    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;
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Old November 12, 2012, 10:09 PM   #9
WeedWacker
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Thanks Frank, that was very helpful.
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Old November 12, 2012, 10:50 PM   #10
hermannr
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I'm not sure about the "lent" weapon has to be transfered...if it never was originally transfered to the range that borrowed it, there should be no need for a transfer back to him...it was a loan.

as for the other transaction...if you can find an FFL that will accept from a private party, there is no law in WA or ID that says you have to remove, or place the weapon "on the books". Lived in both states, live in WA now (since 1970) your only transfer restriction is the Federal one.

Actually, WA law just points to the Federal law...it states, if it's ok with the feds, it's ok with us.
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Old November 12, 2012, 11:25 PM   #11
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermannr
...I'm not sure about the "lent" weapon has to be transfered...if it never was originally transfered to the range that borrowed it, there should be no need for a transfer back to him...it was a loan...
Sigh!

No --

[1] It was "lent" an indoor range which presumably has an FFL.

[2] 18 USC 922(a)(5) has an exception for temporarily loaning a gun to a resident of another State for sporting purposes. The handgun in this case was transferred to an FFL for business purposes.

[3] 18 USC 922(a)(3) dealing with a transferred gun cross state lines has no "loan" exception. Essentially, you can't loan across state lines.

[4] This has been addressed in great detail in a number of other posts, and I've posted numerous times the full text of the laws.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:41 PM   #12
hermannr
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Hej Frank...did not consider that the range probably had an FFL..

Thinking more about myself...when I went in the military (pre GCA68) I left all my guns with my dad (except one pistol). While I was in the military my dad moved to Washington. When I got out of the military 8 years later, I went to my parent home, retrieved my personal guns, and "borrowed" all of dad's guns (except his Win 1897 he kept for SD)

Had those "borrowed" guns until he died in 1988, when they became mine for real... (then I got the 1897 too as mom moved back to Canada to live near my sister..)
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Old November 13, 2012, 01:41 PM   #13
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
Thinking more about myself...when I went in the military (pre GCA68) I left all my guns with my dad (except one pistol). While I was in the military my dad moved to Washington. When I got out of the military 8 years later, I went to my parent home, retrieved my personal guns, and "borrowed" all of dad's guns (except his Win 1897 he kept for SD)

Had those "borrowed" guns until he died in 1988, when they became mine for real... ...
I'm sure you don't want a legal analysis of all that, so I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread.
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Old November 13, 2012, 02:36 PM   #14
WeedWacker
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  • The range sells/rents firearms
  • the range had to place the revolver in the books so I guess they "took possession" and hence a need for transfer
  • The firearm being sold is a pistol hence the question about transferring via one FFL isntead of two

My questions have been answered, thank you very much for the help
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Old November 14, 2012, 02:09 AM   #15
Frank Ettin
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Since the OP has his answers, we're done here.
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