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Old November 12, 2012, 10:43 PM   #1
UncleLoodis
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Berry's .38 Bullet Issue

Greetings.

I have had issues with Berry's in the past regarding this, so I don't know why I keep going back to them...except their cheap.

I'll cut to the chase: I bought some (2,000) .38/.357 double struck, 158 grain, round nose bullets. They measure .355" in diameter. Is this too small of a diameter? The problem is that they are just too loose in the cases. I have Zero and Hornady brand bullets; they measure .357" and/or .358" in diameter and seem to work fine--nice and snug in the cases. I've used other Berry's bullets and they work fine, but I always seem to have sizing issues with their .38 bullets. One gent suggested using a 9mm sizing die...and I did on my last batch...worked just fine. But on this new batch, they're loose, even with using my 9mm sizing die. Is .002" too little to be worried about, and if so, why are the slugs too loose in the cases (before belling the mouth of the case).

Thanks in advance for replies.

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Old November 12, 2012, 10:48 PM   #2
joneb
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I have not used Berry's but I have used Rainier and Xtreme bullets with good results.
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Old November 12, 2012, 10:59 PM   #3
UncleLoodis
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I haven't used Rainier but I have used Zero and Xtreme with good luck too. I don't know why I keep screwing around with Berry's. Thanks for the info.

U.L.
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Old November 12, 2012, 11:01 PM   #4
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The 125 gr .357 diameter Berrys bullets I have used are fine. One time I bought a box of Speer that were .355 diameter. Still have that box as that diameter is appropriate for 357 Sig.
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Old November 12, 2012, 11:04 PM   #5
UncleLoodis
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I have some 125 grain flat points too from Berry's...they are .357" in diameter. I am thinking of contacting Berry's and seeing if they'll take their .355" bullets back for a refund. It really irritates me too...I was in the mood to start cranking out .38 Spl. tonight!
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Old November 13, 2012, 05:20 PM   #6
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Yep, .355" is too small for .38/.357. Ok for 9mm, but even for a jacketed bullet, .355" is too small.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:27 PM   #7
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Sounds like they sent you 9mm bullets!
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:35 PM   #8
UncleLoodis
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Update

Well, I contacted Berry's--emailed them last night and then followed up with a phone call this afternoon. They asked me to send a couple of bullets from each of the three lots, so I put some in three different ziplock bags with a slip of paper in each--that listed each bag's lot number. I am going to UPS them to Berry's. Their phone help is at least polite, and seemed concerned about the issue. I will post another update when I get a reply from them.

U.L.
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:44 AM   #9
floydster
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I have had the same prob with the 38 Super bullets from Berry's -.355, just too loose in the case, am going to try to put more taper crimp on them so I can at least use them
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Old November 15, 2012, 01:54 PM   #10
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I prefer and use Xtreme -- these are highly recommended. I get much better accuracy from them than from others.

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Old November 15, 2012, 02:23 PM   #11
89blazin
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Did they weigh 158 gr?
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Old November 15, 2012, 02:25 PM   #12
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Last year I had an issue with Berrys being mislabled. I ordered several boxes and one came to me labeled as 40 cal, 200 grain when they were actually 44 cal, 200 grain. I called to alert them and they seemed thankful for the heads up.
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Old November 16, 2012, 09:13 AM   #13
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I just bought a 1K box of the exact same bullet the OP posted about and this thread got me concerned, so I miked a few of them and most were right on at .3570, with a few coming in at .3565. My guess is that UncleLoodis got a box of 9mm bullets that somebody at Berrys put a .38 label on, but 89blazin had the $64K question: Are they actually 158 gr? Berrys doesn't (and I wouldn't expect them to) list a 158 gr bullet in 9mm, so if they're 158 gr then they're presumably .38 bullets that got sized incorrectly.
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:56 PM   #14
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I'd think any operation could have some screw-ups like this and I can see where it would cause quite a bit of grief! I've often wondered about HEAVIER bullets getting mixed in with some lighter-for-caliber ones, and how that could create a potential over-pressure event in some loads...but then I figured that I'd have to have been failing in my part to not notice a significantly longer slug.

In any case, I've bought more Berry's plated bullets than perhaps the average buyer does and I can truthfully report that I've never gotten anything that was mislabeled or otherwise out of whack. Even the rare occasion when they've offered some manner of a "blemished" lot, I've been completely happy with those, too. I've gotten them from at least 5 different sources, too.

I've dealt with Berry's a couple of times and they are a fine group with a great product that I continue to use an exorbitant amount of.
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:53 AM   #15
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How are you measuring the bullets? Are you using a micrometer or a set of calipers? A mike is probably the better way as a caliper can be a bit inaccurate.
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:55 PM   #16
UncleLoodis
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thanks

First off, thanks for all the replies. I really do appreciate you all taking the time to reply and offer help.

Berry's did call me. They said that they measured the bullets I sent back and they were at .357. Now, I measured each bullet of the about 15 I sent back and they were NOT .357. I zero'd out my digital mike and measured and remeasured them.

Yes, they weighed 158 grains, with a super small amount of wiggle room.

I would second guess my measuring, except I have some Hornady XTP and some Zero JHP bullets, BOTH of which work just fine and dandy in the SAME cases I tried with the Berry's bullets. Again, even using a 9mm sizing die, the Berry's were loose (pre belling the mouth).

Anyway, the guy at Berry's was very polite but stuck to his story. So I told him I'd like to return them. He said to just send them back and he would credit my CC that I used to order them.

I just ordered 5K Zero brand from Roze Distrib. I've used them before and have had NO problems with them...and the ones I ordered are FMJ, so I don't have to be concerned with FPS (not that I usually load them hot enough to worry anyway).

So, I probably won't be ordering any more .38/.357 bullets from Berry's. I may order .45 Auto or 9mm...but not .38/.357.

Thanks again for your replies.

Uncle Loodis
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
I would second guess my measuring, except I have some Hornady XTP and some Zero JHP bullets,
The XTPs should be a good bench mark. I have a Starrett micrometer that agrees with Hornady, a machinist friend of mine confirmed the calibration.
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Old November 27, 2012, 02:37 PM   #18
Sevens
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I can tell you that Nosler makes some very nice handgun bullets and their attention to detail is obvious...and reflected in their price. However, they are amongst the SLIMMEST handgun bullets I've ever tried, and I had to discontinue their use in 10mm because I simply wasn't happy with the case mouth tension I get with them.

And I suppose you could reference some manner of technique or operator error, but that would fly in the face of the some 4,850 other top-notch 10mm handloads I've concocted with bullets manufactured by at least six different companies and sent downrange in four different handguns... so my experience tells me it was the Nosler slugs.

I went through 750 of them in 10mm -- and still use them in .44 Magnum.
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:49 PM   #19
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I've only used Berry's once many years ago, .355 hollow point @ 124 grains. Plating must be much thinner than the Rainier bullets I currently use. At 9x19mm velocities the Berry's bullets keyholed, will never use again.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:11 PM   #20
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I've used 4K+ Berry's 115 gr. plated bullets in 9mm and have never had a problem. I also used 500 or so 125 gr. plated .38 special bullets and had no problems either, although I now only use lead bullets.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:21 PM   #21
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I had some Berry's Hp for 357 and were okay but about 5 of them when I went to put them on the brass to seat fell down inside the case.
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:30 PM   #22
Sevens
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Quote:
Plating must be much thinner than the Rainier bullets I currently use.
This is 180 degrees from my experience with these two brands.
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Old November 29, 2012, 10:58 AM   #23
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I've been using the Berry 158 gr. RNF bullet in my 357 mag target/plinker loads and haven't had any problem with them at this time. I did order some of their 150 gr. RNF bullets for my 30-30 and had a similar problem as UncleLoodis. I have never had a problem with lack of neck tension loading for 30-30 Win until I loaded the 30-30 bullets from Berry. Many of the bullets could be pushed into the case with hand pressure on the bullet. I got my mike out and measured 50 random bullets out a box of 250. I found of the 50 I measured 20% were smaller than .308. These bullets were not mis-marked they were mis-manufactured. I neck size my 30-30 cases using the Lee Neck Sizing Die and solved the problem by reducing the size of a spare mandrel for the die. This allowed me to size down the case enough to grip the bullet. It looks like they may be having some quality issues. Just my experience with them.
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Old January 14, 2013, 11:04 PM   #24
UncleLoodis
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Well it's about time

I just thought I'd update this.

I returned the bullets in NOVEMBER.

On January 9th, I FINALLY received a credit from Berry's. They decided to charge me a 10% restocking fee, and still claim that there was nothing wrong with their bullets. And, they will not refund my postage. If you read the posts, I spent my time to separated and tag bullets from each lot number in order to assist them with their issue. In return, I get no thanks, no credit for the roughly $22.00 in postage, and a 10% restock fee.

I WILL NEVER, EVER, give them one cent more of my business. One does not treat customers this way and expect repeat business.

Sincerely,

Uncle Loodis
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Old January 15, 2013, 03:44 PM   #25
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In our internet, instant communication world of today, the masses can learn about poor products or service instantaneously, so if anyone wants to succeed in commerce or in a profession, he had better treat every customer or client the way he would want to be treated, or even better.
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