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Old October 16, 2012, 06:41 PM   #2676
mayosligo
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Wonder if Hillary will accept responsibility for this also since it involves foreign countries?
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Old October 17, 2012, 03:25 AM   #2677
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NRA's Ginny Simone interviewed Vince Cefalu on his unceremonious firing, October 12, 2012.

VIDEO LINK
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Old October 17, 2012, 08:12 PM   #2678
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jimpeel:

Re the video clip linked in your post 2675, Mr. Cefalu seems to be of the opinion that, "the system works", which I take to mean that in the end, truth will out, and he will be vindicated, he thinks.

I hope that it turns out that he is right, that the truth favors him, and that it really will come out. Realistically, I just don't think that it will, this based on my perhaps jaundiced view of things. Of course, I'm 79 years old, and I've not led a particularly sheltered life, and then I might not know what I'm talking about.

Our Sec. of State, we are told, has "accepted responsibility". As I recall, then Attorney General Janet Reno did too, and aside from a bunch of people getting killed, what happened, nothing much as I recall, but them perhaps my memory isn't worth much these days.

Maybe Cefalu is right, maybe "the system does/will work". As I view the things, the system works, but only for those who operate it. Cefalu is not one of those. Meanwhile, regarding the fiasco of Operation Fast & Furious, a bunch of people have been killed, mostly Mexican nationals, shot with firearms that a run away agency of the U.S government "walked" across the border. Has anyone been punished over that? Not that one would notice, yet Cefalu believes that "the system works". I hope that he's right, but personally speaking, I wouldn't bet much on that idea.

Last edited by alan; October 17, 2012 at 08:23 PM.
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Old October 18, 2012, 03:20 AM   #2679
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Alan,

Perchance to dream ...
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old October 29, 2012, 06:46 AM   #2680
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So did anyone else notice that Eric Holder told Congress one story under oath in May of last year, but told the Inspector General a different story?

He told Congress that he probably learned of Fast and Furious from media reports a few weeks earlier, meaning some time in April, presumably.

Quote:
Attorney General Holder told the OIG that he did not learn of the link between the firearms recovered at the Terry murder scene and Operation Fast and Furious until 2011. Holder stated that he probably learned about the link in February 2011, after he received Senator Grassley’s January 27 and 31, 2011, letters and first learned of Operation Fast and Furious.
At the time Holder testified before Congress and for months afterward, the DOJ was still standing by their initial response that the ATF did not allow illegal sales and then let the guns walk. If he admitted that he asked his own people what happened, it would lead to the question, "Did they tell you about the gunwalking?" So he pretended that no one was talking about such unimportant matters way back in February and he had only recently caught wind of it in the media.
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Old October 30, 2012, 10:19 AM   #2681
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Former ATF agent John Dodson has sued Time Inc., for Libel in the Fortune article of 27 June, 2012. https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...laint-pdf.html

After the Joint Staff Report (part I) was published, an attorney hired by John Dodson contacted Fortune magazines managing editor and demended a retraction of the article: http://images.politico.com/global/20...120928_ff.html

When Fortune did not retract the article, Dodson sued for libel on 12 Oct., 2012.

Dylan Byers, "Exclusive: Fast and Furious whistleblower sues Time Inc. for libel", Politico, 24 Oct 2012.
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Old October 30, 2012, 11:02 AM   #2682
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Publius42 in his post numbered 2678 raises question concerning the possibility or is it the likelihood of AG Holder lying, this rising from Holder's seemingly having told different stories about the same thing to The Congress and the Inspector General, whose "report" has since been released.

Re the possibility or likelihood of AG Holder lying, were His Lips Moving is a question that comes to mind.
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Old October 30, 2012, 11:28 AM   #2683
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Latest Oversight Committee Report is out:

http://oversight.house.gov/report/fa...n-part-2-of-3/
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Old November 8, 2012, 11:29 PM   #2684
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There is talk (from the horses mouth) that Eric Holder may resign: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/11/08...s-second-term/

While this is sorta natural for a second term Cabinet makeover, let's see how many others are being, um, re-assigned....
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Old November 9, 2012, 12:49 AM   #2685
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...with not a single prosecution to date. I doubt we'll see much more in the way of hearings at this point, either.
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Old November 9, 2012, 08:11 PM   #2686
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Obama having been re-elected, anyone want bet on the "final resolution" of the Operation F & F business?
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:30 PM   #2687
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Final official resolution will be the DoJ IG report, the person who resigned will be publicly assigned blame, but gifted immunity from further prosecution, and quietly removed from play. The F&F ploy will resume, even further under the table, and more people will die for Chicago, I mean, Washington's political gain. Special Agent Terry's family will be given the cold shoulder from every media agency, and be told, off the record, go home and shut up, it's over.
Former Attorney General Holder will retire from office with an impeccable official record, and will wait patiently for that first SCOTUS opening..
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Old November 9, 2012, 11:14 PM   #2688
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Funny, sad or peculiar, but I suspect that the comments from aromoredman are a whole lot more right than wrong.

As for Obama daring to even trying to appoint Holder to the USSC, that would not surprise me in the least, but only the passage of time will provide an answer to that question.
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Old November 10, 2012, 12:34 AM   #2689
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He could try to appoint him, but unless Reid is able to pass his filibuster reforms, I don't see how he could get Senate confirmation.

Reid may want to reconsider his reform idea, too. The Republicans were calling for that years back, when they had a majority in the Senate. I pointed out to my dad, who was all for that idea, that he might not like the results when the pendulum swung the other way.

And the pendulum eventually always does swing the other way.
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Old November 11, 2012, 03:56 PM   #2690
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MLeake wrote:

He could try to appoint him, but unless Reid is able to pass his filibuster reforms, I don't see how he could get Senate confirmation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

How did he get his other USSC nominations past The Senate?
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Old November 12, 2012, 01:41 AM   #2691
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It isn't the job of the Senate to block every nominee based on political beliefs; it is the job of the Senate to screen nominees for capability and integrity.

Holder has been found in contempt by the House; Holder has left himself wide open for scrutiny with F&F, and other problem issues.

On what basis, other than pure politics, should the Senate have blocked Kagan and Sotomayor?

Holder is a different case - there is a track record that can and would likely be used against him.
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Old November 12, 2012, 07:49 AM   #2692
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Quote:
would likely be used against him.
LIKELY??? That operative word is quite the understatement me thinks...

Brent
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Old November 12, 2012, 10:39 PM   #2693
alan
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MLeake wrote: It isn't the job of the Senate to block every nominee based on political beliefs; it is the job of the Senate to screen nominees for capability and integrity.

Holder has been found in contempt by the House; Holder has left himself wide open for scrutiny with F&F, and other problem issues.

On what basis, other than pure politics, should the Senate have blocked Kagan and Sotomayor?
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I believe that Mr. Holder had publicly taken anti Second Amendment positions prior to his nomination as AG.

As for Sotomayor, I believe that she had written opinions running counter to the Second Amendment also.

I submit that the senate, opposing these nominations would not have been acting on the basis of "political beliefs", but that is purely my take on the thing.
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Old November 30, 2012, 05:43 PM   #2694
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Maybe some justice will occur...

Quote:
Washington D.C. - According to credible ATF sources, officials heavily involved in Operation Fast and Furious and named as partially responsible for the program's failure by Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz and the House Oversight Committee have been stripped of their government security clearances while some have been fired, demoted, and transferred. Criminal charges are also reportedly pending.
Newell fired, Voth demoted, MCallister transferred from PHX, to name a few. All expected to retain their pension benefits. Holder sails on...

Report: Security Clearances Revoked, Criminal Charges Pending For ATF Fast and Furious Officials - Katie Pavlich
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Last edited by Al Norris; November 30, 2012 at 08:33 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old November 30, 2012, 08:54 PM   #2695
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I think the documents will show that Holder and Napolitano lied before congress, and that the President was told about F&F.

I think there's a lot less at stake now with upholding Obama's EP claim. IMO a judge is more inclined to intervene when the election itself is not at stake.

I don't think enough people fell on their sword to stop the congressional inquiry.
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:21 AM   #2696
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What with Obama having been reelected, one wonders as to the fate of "congressional inquiries" previously mentioned.
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:32 AM   #2697
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Re comment in the Katie Pavlich article, linked in post 2692, and the pension eligibility of the ATFers mentioned therein, one wonders as to how blatant an improper act or acts it takes to "depension" these government clowns
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Old December 1, 2012, 02:12 AM   #2698
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If you are fired, or removed for cause, from a federal job you lose your pension benefits. All you get is a refund of the contributions to the pension fund that came from your paycheck, that's it, no monthly check. If you are demoted for cause, your pay is reduced, but your pension may not be hit too badly, since it's based on your highest 3 consecutive years salary. Lots of times, employees who are eligible for retirement are given the option of retiring, just to get them out. I don't agree with that approach in this case.

I'm a Fed. If I engaged in what those folks did, I'd deserve to lose my job and pension for sure.
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Old December 1, 2012, 08:12 AM   #2699
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Old news:

The judge in the Holder contempt case has told tha partys to speed it up.

Quote:
A House committee's lawsuit against Attorney General Eric Holder over his refusal to turn over some documents related to the fallout from Operation Fast and Furious will move forward at a faster pace than the parties requested, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

The Justice Department moved on Oct. 15 to throw out the lawsuit brought by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and agreed with the House panel that it's lawyers could have two months to respond to that motion. However, U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson rejected that proposal on Wednesday, saying that the House committee should file its response by Nov. 16.

"The Court is usually quite receptive to requests to extend the time limits imposed by the local rules, but the parties have not set forth grounds that would support the establishment of a schedule that is as expansive as this one. Moreover, the Court has determined that it is appropriate to resolve the pending motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction before establishing a schedule for the briefing and consideration of motions on the merits," Jackson wrote.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-...it-147254.html

Prediction: This one dies as efforts to avoid the "fiscal cliff" and other pressing matters take center stage.

Last edited by thallub; December 1, 2012 at 08:21 AM.
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Old December 1, 2012, 07:37 PM   #2700
alan
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Re the close of post # 2697:

"Prediction: This one dies as efforts to avoid the "fiscal cliff" and other pressing matters take center stage."

When and if the party in control wishes to sweep some annoying matter under the proverbial carpet, I very much suspect that they, the Obama Administration wants to so do here, justification or reasons for such action can ALWAYS be found.

I suspect that such will be the case here too, though I could wake up one morning to a large surprise.
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