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Old September 30, 2012, 01:40 PM   #1
GP100man
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358429 ???

For quite a while I read `bout the length of the 358429 being toolong for the colts & smiths ,just could`nt comprehend it being too long for the GP100 ???

UNTIL I traded for a sc Lyman & noticed rite off the front band was wider , somewhat wider !!!

I trim my brass with the Lee system to 1,285" & with this boolit it only leaves .020" to the face of the cyl . Now I have no problem trimming the brass a bit to give it some breathing room , but was just amazed at the differences .

I`ve posted on this before but I now have my PC straightened out & can post a pic ,here it is .

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Old October 1, 2012, 04:14 PM   #2
Mike / Tx
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I have been considering picking up one of the MP molds for my GP's. Most of the others I have are based upon the best dimensions they could gather up opn the Keith SWC's.

This said, I am still not overly familiar with all of his bullet designs but this one certainly looks the part based upon the wide front band.

.020" from the face huh, that ain't much wiggle room. I usually keep my cases trimmed but I haven't messed with 357's in quite a while and would have to look back in my notes to see where I had been trimming them back to. I normally only shoot jacketed through them so as long as they are the same length for the crimp thats pretty much al I am worry about.

If you get some free time would you mind posting up some measurements on that bullet? It doesn't have to be down to the last .0001" just something relatively close from the nose to crimp groove. That would give me a better idea if something pops up from MP that I simply have to have.

Thanks.
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Old October 1, 2012, 06:24 PM   #3
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Mike and GP100man, Although the wider front band is what Keith wanted in his Keith-type semi-wad cutter design, many of the mold makers have not Incorporated all the features in the "Keith-type" molds they make. For instance the center bullet in the first post shows the wider front band, but Elmer Keith specified that the grease groove be flat on the bottom to hold more grease and to his (Elmer's), mind, retain the grease better. I know that RCBS Keith molds that I have had all have the flat bottom grease groove not rounded like the early Lyman 429421 (.44 Keith type).
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:31 PM   #4
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I do know the true Keith bullet is square grooved ,the round groove is a Lyman change to get it to drop from the mold better.I`ve also had input on this pic saying the narrower/smaller dia. front band was to address chambering woes (the band was larger than the throats of the cyl causing a balking issue)

Also Mr. Keiths drawings had all 3 bands the same width .

Measurements pending Mike.
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:42 PM   #5
Mike / Tx
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Quote:
I do know the true Keith bullet is square grooved ,the round groove is a Lyman change to get it to drop from the mold better.I`ve also had input on this pic saying the narrower/smaller dia. front band was to address chambering woes (the band was larger than the throats of the cyl causing a balking issue)
Yep there was a LOT od discussion over at CB's on this very subject. When I was first looking into MP molds, I did a few searches and found that a few of the folks who were instrumental in bringing out some of the H&G original design type replica's, were also wanting them to be as close to the original Keith SWC designs as possible. How close they actually got, I personally dunno, but the final resulting MP molds that I already have sure do throw some awesome bullets.

One of the main reasons I went the MP route was that you also usually get at least one choice of HP pin with the set, as well as the molds are brass 4 cavity. I had already gone the 1 cavity Lyman route and while functional, after pouring several hundred up using the Lee 6 cavity, well you can easily see, I was more used to production than what I was getting.

Another one I am growing VERY fond of is the MP 452-640. With the SM HP pins I get bullets for my 45 Colt and using the large I get some heavies to use in my 45 ACP. While I am not feeding it a steady or even regular diet of them, I have found they shoot excellent, and after a bit of head to head testing against some top name JHP's I will now be keeping them stationed for home defense. From what I saw when I shot them up against the others, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that any BG will definitely rethink any ulterior motives.
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Old October 2, 2012, 08:01 PM   #6
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Mike

The best I can measure from the mold it`s nose is .350" & when I measure a boolit if any different I`ll post it .

I`m almost ready to call it quits on production molds ,just too much variance & having to worry `bout size , it`s frustrating to say the least!!

The MP & NOE lines do look intising to say the least !

I really feel that the HPs are too large & have been shying away from em ,although I do own a NOE 360-180(purchased from ICH) that has the pins but mainly have been casting a solid plain based for hunting.
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:37 AM   #7
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My first 358429 mould [1973] had a round lube groove. I could tell no difference in it & my current mould. The mould I have now throws a bullet with these measurements.



Bullet on right.
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Old November 10, 2012, 06:28 AM   #8
Mike / Tx
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LAH,

You have accumulated some VERY fine molds for several different calibers and I have been intending on getting with you to try a couple of them out. I just keep getting caught up with the new MP molds I have, and working up loads and alloys for them instead.

Once I actually find some standardized loads with what I have I will touch base with you on a couple of yours, and see how they run as well.

GP,

The nice thing about the MP molds is they usually always are built with a solid or blank pin option. This lets you pour a solid out of the same mold as you would a HP. This was one of the major selling points for me. Not to mention you could also order an extra set of which ever HP pin, then trim it down if you wanted to for a shallower hole in the nose.

I am just using my alloy to try and control the expansion with the HP's and with the solid versions just pouring the straight LG Iso core alloy for them. I am hopeful that the blend I put together a couple of weeks back will perform to my expectations in the 41 and 44 mags. If so I have plenty of hogs that they will be tested out on in the upcoming near future.
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:05 AM   #9
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Remember Mike if you need any help with the hogs this winter I'm just a phone call away.

Have you tried any NOE moulds?
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Old November 10, 2012, 01:50 PM   #10
Mike / Tx
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Quote:
Remember Mike if you need any help with the hogs this winter I'm just a phone call away.

Have you tried any NOE moulds?
I hear ya, and if I could guarantee they would be around when you got here I wouldn't hesitate to set something up. My little place is simply a stop over point for them as they travel to and from where ever it is they go. I catch them coming across every now and again, and on my game cams once in a while, but I am either here during the week working or if there on a weekend, sleeping. I don't bother them much at night, since I usually hit the floor around 4'ish every morning, I'm usually starting to slow down pretty well around 8'ish in the evening. I head down in the pasture just before sunrise every time we're up there in the hopes of intercepting them as they cross. I get lucky every once in a while, but mostly it is all happenstance.

I DO have one NOE mold, but it is in a 160gr .264 for my 6.5. I haven't even poured any lead though it yet. I picked it up as part of a bundle I got from a fellow on another forum. It looks to be brand new and never used. Might be. I did some reading up on loading the 6.5 with cast AFTER picking it up and not sure I want to dive off into that just yet. I get frustrated enough with that particular rifle loading jacketed so figured I would just hold off until I got one of the 30 cal's up and running first. Of course I need to finalize the loads for my revolvers before I jump off into those as well cause I know once I do the revolvers will be sitting on the shelves for a while.
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Old November 11, 2012, 01:39 PM   #11
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Mike I've never been to TX & have this desire to look round is the western part of the state some winter. I really like lookin' were few people are. Bet that 264/160 boolit looks like a pencil.
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