460 Rowland in 45 acp cases - Page 2

SL1 · September 17, 2012, 07:05 PM

Has anybody checked to see what steel and what hardening processes are used for the 460 Roland conversion barrels? Is it different from the steel/hardening used for the stock .45 ACP barrels?

I know that Ruger sometimes uses different steels for the same gun when chambered for different cartridges. For example, the Super Redhawk uses one steel for the .44 Magnum, but another for the .454 Casull. So, rechambering the .44 Magnum guns to the .454 cartridge will lose a lot of the margin that Ruger intended for safety purposes.

SL1

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · September 17, 2012, 07:19 PM

Bfoosh, this article, with evidence, disclaims what you have stated.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

Clark · September 18, 2012, 01:09 AM

10 years ago, I was not able to get the same measurements of 45 Super case webs as Joe D'Alessandro [The guy who is realguns]. I have nothing but good things to say about him, and I don't know if one of us is making a mistake, or that is just a variation in batches of brass. He was already doing 45 Super when I started 460 Rowland in May 2000. Later he did 460R.

I get 45acp, 45Super, and 460 Rowland case heads cross section the same. 0.180" thick webs.

The only one different is Starline +P 45acp, with much thicker walls. It weighs more and holds less powder.

I talked to the man at Starline 12 years ago, and he said that the +P is for guns with poor case support.

I have an Aluminum framed officer size 1911 with feed ramp intrusion to .235".
I have been able to shoot 45 Super pressure level loads in that pistol, using the +P brass.
But that is on the hairy edge of how much recoil I can take and still be aiming.

WESHOOT2 · September 18, 2012, 08:52 AM

I, too, used a Jarvis barrel (fit by him) in my M20.

Trust Clark's experiments.

Consider goal vs risk.

I kept a 44 Redhawk around; I do my stupid stuff mostly in 9x19 now.
Nowlin barrel.....

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · September 26, 2012, 09:50 PM

Glock 21 in hand, Jarvis barrel on order (4 weeks out, according to the fellow at Jarvis). Going to round up some springs and guide rod.

Clark, would you recommend the Starline 45acp +P brass??

Edward429451 · September 27, 2012, 11:15 AM

I found PMC 45 ACP brass to weigh out as heavy as Win 45 Super brass.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · November 9, 2012, 03:51 PM

Began load development with 230 XTPs and Longshot. Worked up to 9.5 grains (.5grn under 460 starting load) and was getting 1140 FPS out of the G21 with Jarvis barrel. Had o seat them to 2.00" so I was quite wary and started low. I will probably switch over to the Lee 230 TC as I can seat that out a touch more than the XTPs. With a 24# recoil spring and standard spring in the mag I had zero FTF or FTE. I will try to work the 230TC up to around 1300 FPS if possible. I was using RP brass. Cases showed no signs of bulging and the empties chambered just as smoothly as a resized case.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · November 10, 2012, 09:19 PM

I guess the naysayers wish not to comment???? Obviously I have all my fingers if I am typing this reply...

Edward429451 · November 11, 2012, 01:17 PM

RP brass with a 230 gr to 1140. Oh, you must be lieing (sic)

I love it when reality punches nay-saying in the face!

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · November 11, 2012, 01:36 PM

I started out at 8.0 grains longshot, which gave around 1000fps. 8.5 gave me 1050 fps, 9.0 gave me 1100 fps and 9.5 gave me 1140 fps. With the 24# recoil spring, the brass was thrown about 3-4 feet away from me with the 8.0 grain load and about 12-15' with the 9.5 grain load.

Sarge · November 11, 2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

I guess the naysayers wish not to comment???? Obviously I have all my fingers if I am typing this reply...
__________________
~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~

Now THAT is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on a gun forum. Obviously, you've never seen me type.

Don't blow your eye out, Ralphie.

September 17, 2012, 07:19 PM	#27
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,487	Bfoosh, this article, with evidence, disclaims what you have stated. http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~ Last edited by IllinoisCoyoteHunter; September 17, 2012 at 07:26 PM.

September 18, 2012, 01:09 AM	#28
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 1,978	10 years ago, I was not able to get the same measurements of 45 Super case webs as Joe D'Alessandro [The guy who is realguns]. I have nothing but good things to say about him, and I don't know if one of us is making a mistake, or that is just a variation in batches of brass. He was already doing 45 Super when I started 460 Rowland in May 2000. Later he did 460R. I get 45acp, 45Super, and 460 Rowland case heads cross section the same. 0.180" thick webs. The only one different is Starline +P 45acp, with much thicker walls. It weighs more and holds less powder. I talked to the man at Starline 12 years ago, and he said that the +P is for guns with poor case support. I have an Aluminum framed officer size 1911 with feed ramp intrusion to .235". I have been able to shoot 45 Super pressure level loads in that pistol, using the +P brass. But that is on the hairy edge of how much recoil I can take and still be aiming. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

September 18, 2012, 08:52 AM	#29
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 12,923	10mm vs 45 'extra' I, too, used a Jarvis barrel (fit by him) in my M20. Trust Clark's experiments. Consider goal vs risk. I kept a 44 Redhawk around; I do my stupid stuff mostly in 9x19 now. Nowlin barrel..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 26, 2012, 09:50 PM	#30
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,487	Glock 21 in hand, Jarvis barrel on order (4 weeks out, according to the fellow at Jarvis). Going to round up some springs and guide rod. Clark, would you recommend the Starline 45acp +P brass?? __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

September 27, 2012, 11:15 AM	#31
Edward429451 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,457	I found PMC 45 ACP brass to weigh out as heavy as Win 45 Super brass. __________________ "Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long "Understand that the enemy is not the enemy in his own eyes ;this may offer you an opportunity to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate, and quickly." Lazarus Long

September 17, 2012, 07:05 PM	#26
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 1,854	Has anybody checked to see what steel and what hardening processes are used for the 460 Roland conversion barrels? Is it different from the steel/hardening used for the stock .45 ACP barrels? I know that Ruger sometimes uses different steels for the same gun when chambered for different cartridges. For example, the Super Redhawk uses one steel for the .44 Magnum, but another for the .454 Casull. So, rechambering the .44 Magnum guns to the .454 cartridge will lose a lot of the margin that Ruger intended for safety purposes. SL1

November 9, 2012, 03:51 PM	#32
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,487	Began load development with 230 XTPs and Longshot. Worked up to 9.5 grains (.5grn under 460 starting load) and was getting 1140 FPS out of the G21 with Jarvis barrel. Had o seat them to 2.00" so I was quite wary and started low. I will probably switch over to the Lee 230 TC as I can seat that out a touch more than the XTPs. With a 24# recoil spring and standard spring in the mag I had zero FTF or FTE. I will try to work the 230TC up to around 1300 FPS if possible. I was using RP brass. Cases showed no signs of bulging and the empties chambered just as smoothly as a resized case. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

November 10, 2012, 09:19 PM	#33
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,487	I guess the naysayers wish not to comment???? Obviously I have all my fingers if I am typing this reply... __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

November 11, 2012, 01:17 PM	#34
Edward429451 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,457	RP brass with a 230 gr to 1140. Oh, you must be lieing (sic) I love it when reality punches nay-saying in the face! __________________ "Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long "Understand that the enemy is not the enemy in his own eyes ;this may offer you an opportunity to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate, and quickly." Lazarus Long

November 11, 2012, 01:36 PM	#35
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,487	I started out at 8.0 grains longshot, which gave around 1000fps. 8.5 gave me 1050 fps, 9.0 gave me 1100 fps and 9.5 gave me 1140 fps. With the 24# recoil spring, the brass was thrown about 3-4 feet away from me with the 8.0 grain load and about 12-15' with the 9.5 grain load. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~