The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 26, 2012, 01:39 PM   #26
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,850
I'll bring this up because no one else has yet...

Where we live, there is a 5 round limit on mag capacity for hunting (public lands). I bought a 5 round AK mag just for that purpose...

IOW, be sure to check your local regs, first...
tobnpr is offline  
Old October 26, 2012, 03:33 PM   #27
Mr Budha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 115
Quote:
The answer to the OP remains, use the rifle that you shoot best. If you can put them all on a pie plate with the AK, but not the Mosin, use the AK. If you shoot both the same, I would use the Mosin.
Today 12:48 PM
Yea, I'll be taking the two rifles to the range to shoot hopefully next Wednesday by the latest (depends on when the ammo arrives and I can get out of school and work). Although I am almost certain I will be taking the Mosin.

I noticed that the more I shot the Mosin the worse the grouping got. I'm going to shoot one shot, wait 5 minutes, take the second, wait 5 minutes, and then shoot the third (my range does 15 minute intervals before going out to check the target). If with the hunting ammo, I'm getting good results then the Mosin will be taken for sure. I suspect the barrel heating up is drastically is effecting the accuracy. Realistically, I'm going to fire one shot, maybe two on the hunt (if any) so as long as the cold barrel is giving me accurate shots I'll feel comfortable. As Jimbo86 stated, I do not want to wound the animal and then have to track it.

Quote:
I'll bring this up because no one else has yet...

Where we live, there is a 5 round limit on mag capacity for hunting (public lands). I bought a 5 round AK mag just for that purpose...

IOW, be sure to check your local regs, first...
I will be hunting on private land (I know that does not exempt me from following the laws of that state) but I don't believe I'll have to deal with any sort of supervision. Also, I wouldn't load more than five if I took the AK. There would literally be no point.
Mr Budha is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:25 AM   #28
sc928porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
The old Mosin makes a great deer rifle. Ballistics are about the same as the 30-40 Krag. Most of them shoot accurately enough for hunting. The cartridge is also quite capable of taking Elk.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 06:27 PM   #29
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,702
Quote:
The old Mosin makes a great deer rifle. Ballistics are about the same as the 30-40 Krag
I suppose you could load it with a 220 grain round nosed bullet @ 2200.... but 150 spitzers @ 2800 or 174-180BTSP's @ 2500 make for a flatter tajectory, more terminal energy and less recoil.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old October 29, 2012, 04:12 PM   #30
sc928porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
Krag ammo is available in 150 and 180 grain. Balistics are about the same. Equal weight will give very similar performance. For deer, the 150 gr will work quite well.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old October 29, 2012, 07:41 PM   #31
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,702
Quote:
Krag ammo is available in 150 and 180 grain. Balistics are about the same. Equal weight will give very similar performance.
The hottest 150 gr 30-40 Krag load I could find gets to 2650 f/sec(@ 39K CUP), with most in the 24-2500 range .... with 1890's metalurgy and a single locking lug, I wouldn't try the hot one.

The fastest Commie Aught Six 150 gr load I've seen claims 3000 f/sec (@50K PSI) , with 28-2900 being more common.

A Krag pushing a 150 gr speer .308 spitzer to 2500f/sec will have a drop of about 18 inches below its 100 yard zero at 300, with 1128 ft/lbs of energy remaining.

A Mosin pushing a 150gr speer .311 spitzer to 2800 will drop 13 inches below its 100 yard zero and have 1551 ft/lbs @300......

13 is "very similar" to 18 only in that they are both numbers in the teens. 18 inches is almost 1/3 more drop than 13......

Likewise, 1128 ft/lbs and 1551 are not "similar" in terms of energy.

By any objective measure (velocity, muzzle energy, retained energy, working pressure limit), the 7.62x54R is more gun than the .30-40 Krag.....

The Krag is just a bit more powerful than the .30/30, and less so than he 300 Savage.

The 7.62x54R is in the .30/06 class, and to say it has "very similar" ballistics to the Krag is just silly.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old October 29, 2012, 08:03 PM   #32
Rifleman1952
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 245
I would go with the Mosin because of the superior ballistics and the fact that bolt action rifles tend to be more accurate than semi-autos. Practice with the ammo you will use in the hunt. Also make sure you check with your state hunting laws regarding the types of weapons permitted for deer. In my state of Ohio, you can only hunt deer with a shotgun slug, bow, handgun (.357 or larger caliber with at least a 5" barrel) or muzzle loading rifle.
Rifleman1952 is offline  
Old October 29, 2012, 10:21 PM   #33
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 1,567
How did this turn in to a ******* match about the Krag?

Quote:
Also, I wouldn't load more than five if I took the AK. There would literally be no point.
Check the laws where you are hunting, but generally speaking, "only 5 rounds loaded" is irrelevant if your magazine can hold more. The laws usually refer to capacity, not how many are loaded.

My experience is with bird hunting though, surprisingly, with all our asinine firearms laws, mag capacity is not restricted in California for rifles in the hunting regs. If you legally own a 30 round magazine (and a gun that can use it), you can hunt with it (last time I checked).
emcon5 is offline  
Old November 1, 2012, 11:16 PM   #34
Mr Budha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 115


Okay so I got the Wolf Gold in and shot 20 in total. My very first shot at 50 yards hit in the top left black (covered by tape in the shot). And most others shot high left at 50 and especially at 75 yards. When I got to 75 I swapped over to my Marlin 60 (the shots all in the center and below in the black) and noticed that I was flinching slightly to the left! Tried to focus on not doing so and pulling the trigger real slow. The shots uncovered are the 100 yard shots which were mostly high, and one that was very high, which I probably jumped when the guy next to me fired off his 300 win. mag.

The very last shot was high right in the black at 100 yards (the one circled). I still wish I had more time to practice but I need to remember to relax, pull slowly and not flinch! Also, I was changing my point of aim to help adjust to try and hit the black. But if I get the chance on the hunt to shoot, I'm going to aim just slightly low left. The first shot seems to be pretty accurate for some reason.



Above are my shots with the AK at 50, 75 & 100 yards. I do feel slightly more confident with the AK but no doubt the Mosin has a much better sight picture and is more appropriate for the hunt. I might try and bring both along, maybe shoot hog with the AK if it's close enough.
Mr Budha is offline  
Old November 2, 2012, 12:26 PM   #35
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,875
packing 2 guns while hunting can get tiring fast. I would recommend the AK since you are much more accurate. well placed shots kill more animals than badly placed but more powerful shots. also since the mosin nagant has a 300 meter battle sight on it you will need to hold about 6-10 inches low at 100 to hit what you are aiming at. if you are already flinching then aiming left will be counterproductive as the flinch will force your shot even further left if aiming low and slightly right will compensate for both the sights and the flinch.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 2, 2012, 06:43 PM   #36
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 1,567
For the Mosin target, what position were you shooting, and what were you aiming at?

It is possible the front sight needs to be adjusted to the left a hair.

The elevation thing is another matter, I always use a 6:00 hold with iron sights at bullseye targets (aim at the bottom of the black circle).

It is possible you need either a taller front sight, or remove a little bit of material off the bottom of the rear sight slider, to let it sit a little lower.

But based on those targets, I would use the AK, assuming you can find a 5 round magazine.
emcon5 is offline  
Old November 6, 2012, 12:11 AM   #37
Mr Budha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 115
^It is possible the sight needs to be adjusted. I was aiming underneath the black and right in the middle. It is possible that i was flinching. The hunt was successful although I did very quickly find out that, yes, neither rifle is good for hunting lol. I'm going to save up for a proper hunting rifle. Was switching off between the Mosin and my buddies Browning Medallion rifle. Thanks to everyone for the help and wonderful information. I will taking the mosin back to the range in order the shoot some more and find out whether the gun is just wild or it's me!
Mr Budha is offline  
Old November 6, 2012, 12:35 AM   #38
dylanf55
Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2012
Posts: 28
mosin

i had to use a mosin for hunting this year because of lack of money but this wasnt your everyday mosin either it had quite abit done to it but before i put a scope on i could hit the target that i was aiming at as long as it wasnt longer that 100 yds because the front iron sights cover everything past that for me. but dont be afraid to hunt with a mosin i took a elk and a deer this season with mine. GOOD LUCK!!
dylanf55 is offline  
Old November 6, 2012, 01:18 AM   #39
Justice06RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,244
For hunting I would always take the Mosin because we all know the AK is an inaccurate commie round

(j/k)

I have both rifles and I would take the Mosin every time. The AK is for fun IMO (and when the zombies come!)
Justice06RR is offline  
Old November 7, 2012, 07:41 PM   #40
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,759
Whichever you shoot best. In the long run developing the mosin into a better hunting rifle would be smarter than the AK. You can get a sporter stock for it and such without damaging the rifle.

THe key on this trip will be to limit the range you shoot at. If you hit a 5 inch target at 50 yards that is all the farther you should shoot with either gun.

The first few times I went hunting I just tried to learn as much as I could. Work on the riflery a bit before next year and just be happy to get out in the woods this year.

Of course, all but one of the shots I have taken have all been within 50 yards.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old November 8, 2012, 03:56 AM   #41
slicknickns
Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2012
Location: Orange County, CA.
Posts: 23
At least the AK wont get you weird looks
slicknickns is offline  
Old November 8, 2012, 04:58 PM   #42
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
I guess your hunt is over by now.

I hope you used other than FMJs on the deer-or anyother live game. FMJ good for familarization/paper..
langenc is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 12:04 PM   #43
Mr Budha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 115
Yea I was using soft point ammunition
Mr Budha is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10840 seconds with 9 queries