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Old November 7, 2012, 08:37 PM   #1
Bob Wright
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Are we liars?

I see someone else has had his integrity questioned regarding a post showing his target.

Right away someone jumps in with the statement of disbelief even though targets are shown. Targets like that can be shot with an accurate load in an accurate pistol or revovler, by someone who has been willing to practice. When everything comes together, hairsplitting accuracy is possible.

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Old November 7, 2012, 08:40 PM   #2
Nanuk
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That is true, however, all to often people make exaggerated claims.
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Old November 7, 2012, 08:48 PM   #3
Salmoneye
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I know people that can shoot...

Some days I can do some 'stuff', and others I can't...

I know most firearms are inherently more accurate than I am depending on load, etc...

Do I believe when people post targets and groups?

Ayuh...Till I have a reason to doubt someone, I don't...

I have seen some amazing things, and seen them repeated...

Not sure what this thread is about specifically, but even without seeing the posts in question, I have no reason to doubt their veracity...
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:03 PM   #4
Bob Wright
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A few weeks ago or so I made some statement about shots I had made years ago in hopes of one day becoming an exhibition shooter, and another posted of shooting playing cards in two. We were branded liars for those statements.

Another has posted some targets shot with a .44 Mag, Automag, and there are doubters, in effect claiming the target was not at the stated distance, or was shot from a rest.

Some amazing shots can be made with a handgun. All it takes is determination and practice.

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Old November 7, 2012, 09:07 PM   #5
zxcvbob
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Some amazing shots can be made with a handgun. All it takes is determination and practice.
Absolutely. It also helps to save one's good targets (for years) and throw away the bad ones.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:17 PM   #6
Bob Wright
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zxcvbob said:Absolutely. It also helps to save one's good targets (for years) and throw away the bad ones.
When I first started shooting, I had many bad targets. The more I shot, the fewer bad ones I had. As I shot more and more, the good ones outnumbered the bad.

I found if I shot at least 300 rounds per week, I could stay in good form. Lay off a week, and my shooting suffered.

That's why I never became an exhibition shooter, I got married, and could not afford the practice required without some company's financial backing, and never got good enough for that.

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Old November 7, 2012, 09:20 PM   #7
geetarman
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Bob,

Don't get wrapped around the axle about some one posting baloney on the internet.

The woods are full of folks who want to rain on your parade.

I have seen some amazing shots with handguns and rifles.

There is plenty of documented evidence about people like Ed McGivern and Elmer Keith to satisfy almost anyone.

When you post a target and your distance, that is what it is for me.

I frequently shoot with a very good friend who will pop the 300 yard popper with either a 1911 or my model 29.

He won't hit it every time but he does hit it enough for me to know it can be done.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:33 PM   #8
shortwave
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It's one thing to call BS on someone you 'catch' telling a tall tale. Purely another thing to call someone a liar just cause they can do something you can't.

Seems to be a sickening trend on the Internet to insult someone long distance.

Saying that, you can bet if some of the guilty of doing this was face to face with the person they were insulting, they're attitude would be very different.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:43 PM   #9
Bill DeShivs
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Bob-
If you hang around enough, you'll see that a lot of people practice at 7 yards. Anything further, and they can't shoot at all. "7 yards is good enough for self-defense." A lot of people have never had the opportunity to shoot anywhere but an indoor range, and can't comprehend anything further than 25 yards.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:52 PM   #10
mrt949
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I have watched handgun shooters at IHMSA matches shoot 1/2 size chickens at 200 meters.And hit them 9 out of 10 times to determine match winner.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:57 PM   #11
Super Sneaky Steve
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Everyone on the internet can shoot a ragged hole at 100 meters, with one hand, blindfolded.
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Old November 7, 2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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Everyone on the internet can shoot a ragged hole at 100 meters, with one hand, blindfolded.
Which really infuriates the few people in the world (not me) who can really do it.
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Old November 7, 2012, 10:08 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
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"It's one thing to call BS on someone you 'catch' telling a tall tale. Purely another thing to call someone a liar just cause they can do something you can't."

Best line in the entire thread.

And, a good place to end it before it turns into a dog fight.
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Old November 7, 2012, 10:09 PM   #14
JohnKSa
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I think the problem has three facets.

First of all, based on what I see at the range, there are a LOT of shooters out there who can't shoot anything that could respectably be called a group at any distance. I've seen folks at the local ranges using laser sights to shoot groups that don't all stay inside the lines on a human-sized silhouette at 5 yards.

It's understandable that when one member states that they can shoot at 25 yards, groups that are better than another member knows he can shoot at 5 yards, the latter is bound to be suspicious. The first issue is that there is a truly wide skill variation in people's ability to shoot handguns.

Second, when most shooters come back from the range they only bring back or save the targets with results they like, and after awhile they don't remember all the ones that get thrown away. They only post about/brag about the ones they saved. The second issue is that there's a tendency for posters to make it sound like all their groups are as good as the one they're posting today and/or for those reading the post to make the assumption that's what the OP is claiming. For example, I've shot sub-one inch groups at 25 yards using an unrested handgun. Sounds pretty good, but the fact is that I've only managed that a couple of times in many years of shooting.

Finally, some people do make stuff up. There's a fun thread on another forum that's been running for about 3 years. A member started it by challenging all comers that he would pay them $20 for each 5 shot group shot at 15 yards using a handgun from the standing/offhand position (no rest) that was an inch or less from center-to-center if they would pay him $1 for each time they tried and failed while he watched. He still hasn't paid out.

In all fairness, he's located in a small town and the groups have to be shot in his presence to qualify. Things might have been different if he lived in a large metropolis with lots of shooting ranges and shooters. Still, the fact remains that while there are people who can shoot that well, you don't run across them every day--at least not quite as often as you read about them on the internet.

By the way, if you see someone calling another member a liar on TFL, please report the post. It's probably something that a staff member should at least take a look at.
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