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Old October 30, 2012, 11:49 AM   #51
zombietactics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetrain
... people really seem to have no confidence in automatic pistols ... Why ... are we still worrying about that? ...
Because some people don't know better, and don't want to know better. The firearms "community" contains many people who - by their nature - are slow to adapt to change of any kind.
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Old October 30, 2012, 02:14 PM   #52
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Somebody is a Semi man and goes all weak in the knees if somebody says revolver and then he can't see the rest of the posts. To bad, so sad.

You would hate shooting with me. I don;t have a lot of money and I don;t have any fancy guns unless you count my Weatherby. Every single time I go out I take a different batch of guns with me. sometimes semi, sometimes revolver, sometimes some of both. I have been doing this for serious practice since 1971 although I started shooting earlier. I may not live up to anybody's expectations of being professionally proficient but I can handle every gun I have with confidence and so what I have to do to hit my target whether it be bullseye, rabbit or deer. Chances are I can handle any gun you hand me just as proficiently because I don't believe in being a one trick pony. It's my opinion that the specialist handicaps himself unnecessarily.
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Old October 30, 2012, 02:39 PM   #53
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Hey guys? If you want to discuss revolver vs semiautomatic, the General Handgun discussion forum would be a good place for that.

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Old October 30, 2012, 03:32 PM   #54
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I agree with James..

Im not going to turn out the lights and try and assemble my AR in the dark and Im not going to clear jams while wearing a blindfold. I would much rather use that time to practice a clean break from concealed OWB. In ref to a jammed weapon, I realize that when dealing with a deadly enemy in close proximity, you may just have to forget trying to fix a failed weapon and go to another method of defense. Sometimes you may have to close the cylinder with 2 rounds and fight a charging enemy rather than risking precious time trying to ensure that you get all 6.
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Last edited by FireForged; October 30, 2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old October 30, 2012, 09:33 PM   #55
Nanuk
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Weapon manipulation skills are needed. Blind field stripping, maybe not but it is useful.

I don't care who you are if your gun goes click instead of bang you are gonna look at it. It may just be a nanosecond as you clear it or change mags but you will look at it. The trick is quick looks.

Tactics will aid you in having time to perform the necessary drill. Remember get to cover.

There was a Dallas, TX officer killed in a shootout during the 1970's because when he went to reload his 1911 the slide would not go back in battery and the BG walked up and killed him. The slide lock spring had broken and he just made sure and pushed it down manually during quals, but forgot about the broken spring in the shootout.

We must also remember that a gun is only part of the solution, you may need unarmed self defense skills. I know somebody is gonna say "I am 62 years old I am not fighting with anybody" And if you gun malfunctions, you drop it, run out of ammo? Thats kinda like the definition of a POW-Hoping the guy you were just trying to kill has mercy on you.
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Old October 30, 2012, 11:19 PM   #56
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk
...his 1911 the slide would not go back in battery ... The slide lock spring had broken and he just made sure and pushed it down manually during quals...
He might well have had a malfunction that he didn't properly deal with. But there is no part called a "slide lock spring" in a 1911. Do you know what the problem was?
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Old October 31, 2012, 04:26 AM   #57
Justice06RR
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With my own SD weapons I am fairly confident of my weapon manipulation. I think the key is picking a reliable firearm and practicing with it.

In my case a 12ga Mossberg500 which is pretty much bullet-proof for reliability, and 5.56 AR15 which is easy to operate and very accurate as well. Practicing reloads and shooting drills is a good way to be familiar with the firearm you use.
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Old October 31, 2012, 01:19 PM   #58
Nanuk
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He might well have had a malfunction that he didn't properly deal with. But there is no part called a "slide lock spring" in a 1911. Do you know what the problem was?
Never claimed to be a 1911 armorer. There was a problem with the gun that caused the slide stop to hang up, every time. He just figured he could manipulate it. It was not a random malfunction. This happened 40 years ago, some details get fuzzy.
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Old November 1, 2012, 12:59 AM   #59
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I'd say going on duty with a handgun that is known to be broken is a poor choice.
May he RIP.
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Old November 1, 2012, 04:42 AM   #60
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My guns, my Jeep, problem? Immediate fix, any problem.

When I get in an other persons vehicle, and there is more than one problem, that I can see! I want out!

When I was a 1911 shooter, my clearing of a stove pipe (a fairly common occasion) was so quick, some Range Officers missed it.

Now, I can not remember a failure to fire. A Glock 19 I carry, and use the same one in IDPA.
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Old November 5, 2012, 09:50 PM   #61
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Just another $.02

I'm not going to get into what you should carry,or even how much you should practice. What I will say is that under stress, you WILL do what you train to do, right or wrong.

SO, you should only carry what you practice with. Rely on "muscle memory" is fine, so long as the gun is the one you "memorised". Having a back up of the same model, or at least identical controls is (to me) an important thing. AndI don't mean a carried back up gun (although that is important also), but a back up/replacement for you carry piece.

Because, Murphy being the clever fellow he is, will choose that rare instance when you regular is in the shop, or the one day that you carry something different (for whatever reason) to spring his nastiest tricks on you.

IF you are going to operate by instinct (and it is the fastest, and so the most desirable for an unexpected defensive situation) then your instincts have to be right for what you will have in your hands on THAT day!

This was brought home to me many years ago, in a harmless way, but it taught me a valuable lesson. A friend dropped by, saying he had spotted a deer up the canyon. All he had with him was his Browning Sweet 16 (and no deer loads). So I loaned him a rifle to take with him when he went to look. He talked me into going along, and taking his shotgun, (so maybe I could bag a pheasant - I wasn't interested in the deer).

No deer was found, but on the way back, sure enough, a pheasant flushed. I had a round chambered, shouldered the gun, punched off the safety, and ...nothing. Punched off the safety again, and nothing. A third try as the bird sailed out of sight, still nothing.

I had decades of hunting with my Winchester Model 12. If I had that gun in my hands, I would have had that pheasant. But the Browning has its safety at the back of the triggerguard, while the Model 12 is at the FRONT. I instinctively did everything exactly right for my gun, but wrong for his.

LESSON: IF you aren't, or can't take the time to think about what you need to do, you MUST have the gun you don't need to think about in your hands. Nothing else will do!

And, if you or someone else's life could be on the line, it is even MORE important!
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Old November 6, 2012, 02:27 AM   #62
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Quote:
No deer was found, but on the way back, sure enough, a pheasant flushed. I had a round chambered, shouldered the gun, punched off the safety, and ...nothing. Punched off the safety again, and nothing. A third try as the bird sailed out of sight, still nothing.

I had decades of hunting with my Winchester Model 12. If I had that gun in my hands, I would have had that pheasant. But the Browning has its safety at the back of the triggerguard, while the Model 12 is at the FRONT. I instinctively did everything exactly right for my gun, but wrong for his.

LESSON: IF you aren't, or can't take the time to think about what you need to do, you MUST have the gun you don't need to think about in your hands. Nothing else will do!

And, if you or someone else's life could be on the line, it is even MORE important!
Exactly what I was talking about, My shotguns are Stevens, Mossberg, Winchester, H&R, Victor and a couple of side by sides that are not going to be shot due to age of the Damascus barrels. I shoot one of the Mossbergs and one of the Winchesters the most but all of them get their turn on a fairly regular basis so it doesn't matter which one I grab, It's already familiar to me. I'm not a decent wingshot but I can pop a rabbit on the ground pretty quick or take a deer out to 100 yards with slugs from most of my guns, (exception is my .410). Shotgun, rifle or handguns you need to stay familiar with all of them because if you have to change from your primary gun someday you are way behind the 8 ball. Sometimes being a jack of all trades instead of a specialist is a good thing.
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Old November 6, 2012, 10:59 AM   #63
Nanuk
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Quote:
It's my opinion that the specialist handicaps himself unnecessarily.
Quote:
Sometimes being a jack of all trades instead of a specialist is a good thing.
I never saw anyone here saying they were a specialist.

I grew up on revolvers, carried one as a duty gun for 13 years and was drug kicking and screaming into the semi auto world. Fast forward almost 20 years and I know that the best handgun for SD against 2 legged critters is a semi auto. I still hunt with revolvers and carry one as a bug.

This is where cold hard facts should be the determining factor.

I agree OG that one should be able to manipulate many types of guns, that comes with establishing basic familiarity the moment you pick it up ( where is that safety?). I guess I was fortunate growing up around a gun shop and tinkering with guns from an early age.
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