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Old November 1, 2012, 12:37 PM   #1
learningcurve
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Primer Question

How loud is a actual primer only detination. Would it be loud enough for some to hear if they are inside and a large primer was set off in the back yard, loaded in the cartridge with no powder no boolit no nothing just the primer? I only ask because I am having issues with my cases and want to make sure it isnt a primer set too deep for the firing pin. It would be in a 22 inch barrel. I have heard it is like setting off a cap gun. Anyone know?
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Old November 1, 2012, 01:35 PM   #2
Jimro
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Louder than a 22 short.

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Old November 1, 2012, 01:47 PM   #3
Spammy_H
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In my garage, it sounds like a firecracker. I'm guessing encased in a chamber without a bullet in front of it, it would probably be a little less noisy.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:12 PM   #4
learningcurve
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Ok I am just testing one so if anyone came a knocking I would just say it was a dropped primer or something stupid lol, not really I doubt anyone would call I plan to do it in the evening when their are very little people home. Thank you for answering.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:30 PM   #5
thinkingman
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209's in a starter pistol or snub is pretty loud.
In doors is much different than in the field.
209's are used for training bird dogs to associate the flush with gunfire and be steady.
It works.
I use 22 blanks sold at Home Depot for nail drivers.
Much cheaper than what's sold for training guns.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:36 PM   #6
MtnCreek
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Place the muzzle firmly in a old towel or similar.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:38 PM   #7
learningcurve
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I didn't think about muffling the sound. I like that idea thanks.

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Old November 1, 2012, 09:33 PM   #8
learningcurve
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All I did was rest it in a towel bunched into a ball. It was as loud as I thought it would be. Sounded like a cap gun. The primer fired but I still think they are seating a tad to deep in some. O well I am not running high end loads. I did also see that when its just a primer they do tend to back out just a little. Its once fired brass so I might have taken a hair too much of the crimp of since it was lake city brass. Lol next tool to buybis going to be the rcvs swagger. I know dillon is better but rcbs is affordable for me. I found one for 25 bucks. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

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Old November 2, 2012, 07:41 AM   #9
MtnCreek
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If the primer backed out, that means there was room for it to do so. Also having issues with misfires or light strikes? It sounds like you have excessive head clearance. Is this a bolt or auto?

How did you remove the primer crimp? That should not affect primer seating depth. It can cause loose primer fit, but not seating depth.
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Old November 2, 2012, 08:59 AM   #10
learningcurve
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It is a bolt action and I adjusted the shoulder to where there was a little more resistance when the bolt was being closed, it is closer to the factory rounds now then what it was. I also have only about 3 or 4 cases where the primer is setting too deep. I use the lee chamfer tool to remove the crimp, only a few turns on it to do so wasn't pushing very hard. I dont know why the primer sets so deep in the few they do that in. I don't shoot above middle of the road rounds right now anyways I do keep a very close eye on conditions.
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Old November 2, 2012, 11:22 AM   #11
Unclenick
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Several points:

It is normal for primers to back out. They fire more rapidly than the pressure can escape through the vent (flash hole), so they back up like little pistons as the gases work to escape through the vent. The pressure of the powder firing then pushes the case head back over them to reseat them. Garand's first rifle design had its whole semi-automatic mechanism activated by primer back-out. He had to abandon it when the military decided (1924?) to start crimping primers in. That was done because some full-auto mechanisms would encourage primer pockets to get loose, resulting in loose primers falling into the mechanisms and jamming them.

Seating primers too deeply is better than too high. A primer that is not solidly seated will fire less reliably as the firing pin energy is then partly consumed by completing seating and setting the bridge. Almost worse, they can introduce ignition delays of several milliseconds. Too short for the shooter to notice by feel, but long enough to have the same effect as long lock time; small disturbance due to operating the trigger get more time to move the muzzle off target.

Most benchrest shooters use a primer pocket depth uniforming cutter to make all their primers equally deep in the pocket. This improves ignition uniformity.

Setting the bridge is important. This is also called reconsolidation of the primer (though why "reconsolidation" instead of just "consolidation", I don't know). Primers achieve optimum reliability when the thickness of priming mix between the bottom of the cup and the tip of the anvil is the right. For most primers this means seating until you feel the feet of the anvil touch the bottom of the primer pocket, then compressing an additional 0.002"-0.006" deeper (Olin and Remington recommendation for military small rifle primers) into the pocket to set the bridge. Federal recommends seating an additional 0.002" after anvil contact for small rifle primers and an additional 0.003" for large rifle primers. I infer from Olin's and Remington's data that these are actually minimums. Some primers have the anvils sticking out as much as .006" higher than the depth of a shallow primer pocket. This is another reason primer pocket depth uniforming is used. It achieves a recessed primer to avoid slamfires in floating firing pin gas guns and to keep feeding free of high primer can interference.

Alan Jones pointed out that brittle priming mixes are not currently made, so the priming mix can withstand a good deal of compression and the threat of cracking it isn't really an issue anymore. The priming tool built into the Forster Co-ax press forces primers 0.004" to 0.005" below flush with the case head regardless off primer pocket depth, and it makes very reliable ammo, so Jones has to be right about that.

As some evidence that the above is true, Dan Hackett, author of the chapter on Working Up An Accurate Load at the end of the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide┬╣ says the following:
Quote:
There is some debate about how deeply primers should be seated. I don't pretend to have all the answers about this, but I have experimented with seating primers to different depths and seeing what happens on the chronograph and target paper, and so far I've obtained my best results seating them hard, pushing then in past the point where the anvil can be felt hitting the bottom of the pocket. Doing this, I can almost always get velocity standard deviation of less than 10 feet per second, even with magnum cartridges and long-bodied standards on the '06 case, and I haven't been able to accomplish that seating primers to lesser depths.

┬╣Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, Precision Shooting, Inc., 1995, p.271.
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