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Old October 29, 2012, 11:44 AM   #26
BigJimP
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I think a gas operated semi-auto is certainly a very good option ....but a .410 ????

....( my .410 O/U giggles at me, when I load it into a case...." its says, yeah who are you fooling, you're no real shooter, you can't handle this .410 with your fragile ego - you suck " ....and then when I actually take it out to the Skeet field ...the giggling gets even worse...)....last time, I threated to tie it to my bumper with a chain and drag it thru the gravel parking lot to teach it a lesson ....darn thing, still wouldn't quit laughing....

But seriously, --- I have a completely rebuilt shoulder / and only half a bicep (all on my shooting shoulder ) ...elbow surgery ...arthritis in my hand and writst..../ and for a light gun, with almost no recoil, a 28ga O/U fits my needs really well ...when my arm, shoulder, hands hurt. 3/4 oz loads at 1200 fps....is a really soft shooting shell in an 8 lb O/U ..

....and while they aren't common, Remington and others do make a few Semi-autos in 28ga as well ...( they're pretty highly sought after on the used market ) in 1100's or 11-87's ....but the 28ga patterns really well ...and is a really good alternative. But these days its easy to download a 20ga to 3/4oz as well ...and effectively have the same thing.

So I think you have a lot of options - especially if you want to reload 20ga..

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Old October 31, 2012, 03:04 AM   #27
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But the smile you get when you actually shoot a decent score with the .410 is priceless. I'm basically shooting a 28 now, just using 12ga hulls to load them in.
I'm looking at a well used but cared for 1100 now, 28" fixed full choke and a limbsaver pad. The pad was put on without changing the stock so it's about an inch longer than I'd like, easy fix for that. Price I can live with but I just bought me a Dane pup and I have to get her settled before I go spending any gun coin.
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Old October 31, 2012, 06:54 AM   #28
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About 42 years ago my father and I joined a local trap-skeet club and shot every Sunday, for fun or in a league and sometimes on Wednesday nights. This went on for more than 30 years until dad and mom retired and went to Florida. He had my grandfather's Model 12 Winchester that was made in 1929 that Grandfather had won fairly prestigious competitions with the 1930s. It has an English style stock (no pistol grip shape) so recoil could have been an issue but wasn't; it was full choked with a ventilated rib and dad could toss that to his shoulder and the beads would line up without any other effort than just shouldering the gun. It has also killed maybe a million white tails, but that's another story.

My dad bought me a Model 12 trap gun also made in 1929 with a full choke and vent rib and had it reblued and restocked by a local guy whose specialty was fitting guns to their shooters. My '12 shoulders like my dad's does; it fits me "like a finger in the mud" as grandfather used to say.

We bought a Mec 600 Jr and with no further research began reloading. I have no idea how much lead or powder it throws; I do know that from day one the shot-powder bar hasn't been changed. I've always used 7 1/2 shot and the same powder, Blue Dot I think.

Over the years we put who knows how many reloads through the Mec and through our Model 12s, Dad shooting 23 or 24/25 consistently; my average was a bit higher over many matches.

I still have the shotguns, the Mec is bolted to my new reloading bench, the powder, shot, hulls and primers are all at hand. But Dad and Mom moved away after they retired, and Dad passed on a few years ago so our little shooting and reloading ritual came to an end.

Every now and then I take Dad's '12 out of the rack and handle it; then mine, and remember all the fun we had together.

Don't know why I posted this, it isn't of any use to the OP or anyone else. It's just when I read "trap" I get a flood of memories and thought to write them down this time.
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Old October 31, 2012, 05:48 PM   #29
TheKlawMan
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Taliking about shooting a .410, BigJim. A regular at my range shoots a Citori .410. I don't know exactly what model but it looks like a sporting clays model. anyway, the guy lost the use of an eye in the service and his back is severely twisted from the same incident. Probably had to be Korea. Today he shot a 22 from the 16 yard line. Not a particularly good score for him.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:51 AM   #30
OkieCruffler
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Well Billy there ain't no such thing as a useless story if it's entertaining. I'd love to have the coin for a mod 12 trap gun. Or just a plain Jane mod 12 for that matter. I have a real love for old wood and steel.
One of the guys I shoot skeet with often pulls out one of his .410 O/U's. More often than not he runs a 25 with it. But he's got a few years experience (in his 80's) and apparently was pretty well known on the skeet scene back in the 50's. I'm especially fond of a sexy little win 101 he recently brought back from Oklahoma that he would gladly sell to me for a mere $2K.
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Old November 1, 2012, 10:42 AM   #31
BigJimP
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Seriously, a .410 gives you a smaller pattern ( maybe 18" instead of 30" ) and with only 1/2oz of shot ...its not a gun for a novice. But it will tell you if your fundamentals ( swing, watching the target, follow thru ) are really in sync... We have a number of guys at my club that will easily run 100 straight with the .410 ...and they hit them hard !

Heck I don't have confidence in any of my guns somedays....but I do know that I get away with some sloppy moves now and then on a target with a 12ga....

But most of us shoot clay targets for fun anyway ...I did manage a 96 a few weeks ago in Skeet ....( 24, 25, 25, 24 ) ....for one of the best days I've had in a long time with my 12ga Citori XS Skeet ...and heck, I'll probably hold that day over my squadmates for at least 3 months....

But as we all get older, and I'm only 62 ...we have orthopedic issues ..that make picking a gun and gague more important (like the shoulder rebuild I spoke of above ) and somedays I just can't handle a big 8 1/2 lb 12ga gun - even mounting it hurts (not just the recoil )...its the weight that takes a toll on my elbow and shoulder. That's why I still think a 28ga is a good idea...especially in a gun that might only weigh 7 lbs...so don't overlook a gun like the Browning BPS Hunter model in 28ga ...with a 28" barrel....its an affordable option as well. They're selling new in box for around $ 600 in my area. ( its style is classic / nice wood / blued barrel ...)...

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...id=012&tid=211

or even think seriously about reloading for that 20ga ...with some 3/4 oz loads...( basically make it like a 28ga ).

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Old November 1, 2012, 05:05 PM   #32
Uncle Billy
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Every winter my Dad and I would shoot trap in a winter skeet and trap league they ran at our local club, which also had skeet fields. Both Dad and I did pretty well- I won my division a couple of years. The membership was divided between the skeet guys and the trap guys so there was always a lot of (usually) good-natured needling between them. Once, on a dare, I shot a round of skeet, but not with my Winchester which was expected- I used a Rossi coach gun- SxS 12 gauge with 20" barrels, IC chokes, 2 hammers and 2 triggers. My then-wife bought it new for $125 for me as a joke. It looked ridiculous in the rack next to the Citoris and Krieghoffs and other $3000-and-up guns that were common among the skeet guys. Well, I shot a 24/25 with it, hammers and triggers notwithstanding. Boy, did that give me a lot of currency in the ongoing debate with the skeet shooters- my usual retort was "How difficult is skeet when you know exactly where the bird is going to go every time? And a $125 riot gun shoots as well as one worth 6 months' mortgage payments?". It was a good laugh all around, and the top-shelf payoff at the bar went down real easy. One of the skeet guys was going to try the Rossi, but after he got over the external hammers, he came up with the 2 triggers. He broke it open, took out his shells and handed it back.
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Old November 1, 2012, 09:59 PM   #33
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See, I shoot just to amuse myself. I go to the range, sit round and BS with a bunch of really friendly guys. Every n ow and then someone say's, "Hey, anyone want to shoot a round?" and if I'm not in the middle of some interesting conversation I'll get off my butt and wander down to the line. That's why I get such a kick out of all these people who voice their opinion that I'm wasting my time if I don't drop a couple of grand on a high grade O/U. I don't doubt that I'm handicapping myself abit with my current favorite 311. It's choked full and not quite as full. Truth be known it's an inch shorter in pull than I'd like it to be. But I really enjoy shooting it. A better gun might buy a few more clays and make those 25's show more frequently, but I'll never shoot in matches.
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Old November 2, 2012, 01:55 AM   #34
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Okie, Here is a thought. If you like shooting the 311 for trap, but would like a longer lop, how about getting an adjustable butt plate/pad. You can lower it when shooting trap and slide it back up for skeet. Depending on the one you get and the pad, you can lengthen that LOP. You may even want to go with a Gracoil to reduce some of the felt recoil. I know you will do what you want and that is the way it should be, even if you spend more on the upgrading the gun than it is worth on the market.
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Old November 2, 2012, 03:38 AM   #35
Uncle Billy
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Okie: You're right, the fellowship of the gun club is a good part of the pleasure of going there. Like fishing and hunting, it's the guys together that adds so much to the pleasure of doing it.
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