The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 14, 2012, 10:03 PM   #1
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Piggyback II shell plate won't rotate

So I completely tore down my rockchucker with the piggyback II on it and cleaned everything completely. I put it back together and when I tighten down the shoulder bolt for the shell plate, the plate won't rotate. I know nothing is jammed since I haven't done anything with it since everything was cleaned. I put some gun oil on the ring on the shellplate holder (inside of the spring/ball detente) and it will slide a little, but not correctly at all. Anyone got any insight what I might have misaligned or catching, etc that could cause this? I don't want to strip out the plastic indexing bushing until I can easily turn it by hand. Any help?
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 10:49 AM   #2
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Shoulder bolt issue?

So talked to RCBS, they said some models went out with defective shoulder bolts and they're sending me a new one. Anyone else have issues like this? NNot sure if this is the issue or not.
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 11:36 AM   #3
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,891
Lets see you've got some time into it and a phone cal to RCBS. Now they are making it right with new parts, you don't have send back any parts or pay postage do you.

I bought a used die set -- found the expander ball missing, phone call later they sent me a new ball/spindle assembly. Can you ask for better warrenty than that.
jaguarxk120 is online now  
Old October 15, 2012, 12:06 PM   #4
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Service has always been great with RCBS, no issue there. But I've used this press for a couple of years now and had problems with the priming system too. That still doesn't work to where I'll use the auto primer system (I handprime everything since I won't shoot rounds where the primer isn't all the way seated, don't know if it's a CCI primer issue or what). Bottom line, they tend to do a little guessing. They've sent me parts I didn't need a number of times, even when I told them I knew those parts were good (I'm not faulting them for this, it can be hard to diagnose over the phone). When they're busy they tend to just try to throw parts at it and hope it works. The one individual (Larry I think his name is) seems to be much more knowledgable on the actual operation of the press, some of the others I've dealt with not as much. Bottom line, after screwing with it on and off for a couple of months I still don't trust my primer system.

So anyway, yes, they are sending me a new bolt, but I don't know if that's the real problem. Some plates rotate fine, others not so much. Does the detente ball need to go into a particular hole in the bottom of the shell plate (answer should be no)? Instead of gun oil between the shell plate holder and shell plate, should I use a heavier grease? Truthfully, due to stripped bushings and jams it became easier to index the press by hand rather than the auto-indexer (since I wasn't using the auto primer system anyway). Any thoughts at all on anything else I can look into while I wait for the new bolt? I love RCBS, just need to get this figured out!
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 02:09 PM   #5
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,313
“So I completely tore down my rockchucker with the piggyback II on it and cleaned everything completely” I will assume you connected the connector between the press ram and ram on the Piggy Back 11 add on, I will assume you know the shell plate only rotates counter clock wise, there is a one way clutch that prevents the plate from rotating clock wise, it is atattached to the spiral drive between the top of the ram and tool head.

I have two Piggy Back 11 presses, I do not use compressed air to clean computers, the computer is a vacuum, it sifts dirt, grit and grime from the air, I use a vacuum cleaner when cleaning a computer, and, I also use a vacuum cleaner to clean presses FIRST! I am not a fan of recycling dirt blown into the atmosphere with compressed air, good stuff, not necessary but good stuff.


http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf

I believe page 12 and 13 could help you, at the bottom of the page is says something like “Or damage can occur” I believe they are referring to tightening the shoulder bolt.

RCBS phone # 1800 533 5000

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 07:12 PM   #6
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Yeah, I understand the press only rotates. When I say "tore it appart" I took everything off the rockchucker and completely disassembled the piggyback. When I say "cleaned it all out" I used brake cleaner on everything and got every single part spotless and pristine. Then I put it all back together. I saw the part about overtightening the shoulder bolt, if that happened, I'm not sure what part may have been damaged to know if it was the bolt or if the shell plate holder was damaged -- in which case I need that. I hope they made it so that any damage would occur to the bolt and that would mean a new bolt fixes it. I asked RCBS and they were unclear what part I might have damaged (it's very possible I'm the one that caused the damage). Has anyone else ever damaged the bolt, or anyone knowledgable about RCBS Piggyback II to know what part will fail first? Thanks for feedback everyone!
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:38 PM   #7
sidewindr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2011
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 101
I've always been interested in trying one of these for my RC Supreme(Piggyback IV, I believe) as a second progressive but can switch back to SS when needed. Beside this how do you like it.

F. Guffey, how do tou like yours ?

In the instructions it looks like a few thing have to be done with the ram up and using stuff to make sure things are lined up. Did everything get lined up and a little lube on moveing parts. You didn't have anything that felt snug going together and you just "pushed a little more", thus posibly bending or tweeking something? I would take it back apart and reassemble each part again with the instructions right there and check for proper movement or orientation after each part, then proceed on.
It looks like if the shoulder bolt is overtightened it could damage the twisted plactic rod or whatever parts it goes through. Also if the ram isn't raised up when doing this can it put unwanted pressure on some indexing part? I'm just thinking like my Hornady LNL, you can break indexing pawls by not having the ram raised and tightening the bolt.
sidewindr is offline  
Old October 15, 2012, 10:18 PM   #8
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Overall, I like the press a lot. In this case, that bolt goes in to connect the shell plate to the shell plate holder. After that's in, two small screws hold the indexing rod to the shell plate, not the bolt. With the threads on the bolt, I'm worried I might have damaged the receiving threads in the shell plate holder. I'm hoping I just jacked up the threads on the bolt causing it to overly tighten down the shell plate to the shell holder.

The shell plate holder has to be raised because there's a guide rod that goes in a hole in the shell plate. So after the shell plate is on the shell plate holder I lower it onto the guide rod before tightening the shoulder bolt. Others may have a different procedure, but that's mine.
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 01:18 PM   #9
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 277
I was reading this and I didn't catch if it was binding or just turning hard?
Did you get brake cleaner in the little plastic bushing at the top?
That stuff may melt the plastic.
A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 09:10 PM   #10
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
No, I made sure I didn't get anything on the bushing. At first it wouldn't turn at all, then I loosened the shoulder bolt some and it would move, but not easily. To loosen it enough to get smooth movement the shoulder bolt is so loose that when the plate rotates, the bolt rotates out as well. This might have been the issue RCBS mentioned. But I think I just messed up and overtighted (thus damaging) the shoulder bolt. I'm hoping that's the case anyway, though I talked to RCBS again today and the guy said if the bolt doesn't fix it he'll send me the shell plate holder. RCBS is doing everything they can to help, which I appreciate!
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 17, 2012, 08:32 AM   #11
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,313
“When I say "cleaned it all out" I used brake cleaner on everything and got every single part spotless and pristine”

Brake clean, in my opinion, is a bad habit, I want something between the metal and the atmosphere, what ever was between the metal and atmosphere is gone after using brake clean, I know, looks nice, it is clean and spotless, I had rather have the finish that was between the metal and atmosphere, and as has been mentioned, brake clean is not an ‘all friendly cleaner to all materials.

Again, I have two complete Piggy Back 11 presses, one set up for large primers and the other with small primers. I do not have a problem with the presses. One, in the big inning was just a Piggy Back without the lock out, then RCBS made me an offer to up grade the Piggy Back to a Piggy Back 11.

For the price? The Piggy Back type press is a 5 position press, I will not load on a progressive press without a lock out die, a 4 position press must seat and crimp on the same position if a lock out die ( or powder die) is used. The shell plate for the Piggy Back 11 press is the same shell plate used on the Pro 2000 press.

F. Guffey

And I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel, again, what ever finish is on the outside of my dies stays on the die, I am the fan of the ‘leaver policy’ I leaver the way I founder.
F. Guffey is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 09:26 AM   #12
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Glad you're not having any issues with your presses. When I tighten the bolt just tight enough to allow the shell plate to turn the way it's supposed to, the indexing action causes causes the shoulder bolt to back out. So after 5 - 10 cases the bolt has loosened to the point that the shell plate has raised up too far and I have to tighten it back down. If I connect the indexing rod for the automatic indexing rather than use my fingers to index the plate, the bolt loosens and pushes up against the rod. So after a time as the shells are going up into the dies, due to the increased space between the shell plate and shell plate holder causes all the stress to go to the two screws holding the indexing rod to the shell plate -- I've broken or bent severley 4 of these so far.

So if I tighten the bolt to the point that the bolt won't back out when indexing, the shell plate won't turn easily, or at all. Anyone else have this problem? I'm hoping this is the issue RCBS was talking about a bunch of the presses having a "defective" bolt. I've dealt with this problem for the last couple of years, obviously found ways to deal with it. But it's not ideal by any means. Any insight is appreciated!
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 04:51 PM   #13
sidewindr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2011
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 101
Just for gigles measure the length of the shoulder on your bolt and then measure the shellplate thickness. Is the shoulder longer than the thickness of the shellplate? I would think it should be so when you tighten the bolt down it tighten against the baseplate before the head of the bolt hits the shellplate.
sidewindr is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 06:45 PM   #14
ehockenb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Good idea, I'll have to check that. I'll probably screw the bolt in all the way without the shell plate and measure the distance between the bottom surface of the bolt and shell plate holder and compare that to the thickness of the shell plate. RCBS mentioned something about there being a problem with the threads, couldn't see what that might be but would make more sense if the bolt was essentially too short causing too much pressure on the shell plate when tightened to a sufficient torque to keep it from backing out. I'll post if that turns out to be the problem. Thanks!
ehockenb is offline  
Old October 21, 2012, 01:05 PM   #15
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,313
echokeb, the shell plate must be able to rotate after the shoulder bolt is secured, that would before the one way hex shaft is installed to the shell plate, to rotate the shell plate must be above the index/ locating rod/pin.

If the shell plate will not rotate when raised above the index pin before installing everything above the shell plate the problem has to be with the should bolt.

When securing a bolt that bottoms out it does not take much torque to pull the threads up from the bottom, the shoulder bolt is a bolt that has a stop, the stop prevents the bolt from causing the shell plate to lock up.

I use transfers, standards and verifying tools, I would cut a spacer and place it between the shoulder nut and seating surface onside the upper ram.

you could remove the upper ram (again) then try to secure the shell plate with the shoulder nut, once the shoulder nut is secured the shell plate should rotate in either direction, is a spacer is required the shoulder nut could be backed off until free running is acquired, I would use a feeler gage to determine the clearence between the shell plate and upper ram to determine the amount of clearance necessary..

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 11:07 AM   #16
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,313
I turned my Piggy Back 11 upside down, then thought about the “thoroughly” as in taking it (the press) apart, did you separate the upper ram from shell holder plate? The two rams must be aligned for the ram connector to fit when installed. The top of the upper ram screws into the shell plate holder.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Reply

Tags
progressive , rock chucker

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10685 seconds with 10 queries