The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 16, 2001, 03:22 AM   #1
Blue Duck357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2000
Posts: 1,460
OK I know this is not what they are designed for, but I'm just curios what the most accurate submachien gun is and what kind of groups it can make at say 50 or 100 yards.

I remember reading the MP5 was considered very accurate due to it's closed bolt operation, any other guns in it's class or better accuracy wise?

Thanks for any help, Blue Duck
Blue Duck357 is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 10:59 AM   #2
fal308
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 12, 1998
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,986
My vote for most accurate (or potentially the most accurate) would be the HKs, MP5 or UMP.
fal308 is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 12:15 PM   #3
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
I'll second the MP5. Won't have possession of a UMP for a few months, let you know then. If the UMC is any indication, it is going to be really good.

Robert
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 01:33 PM   #4
Hard Ball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 3,925
By far the most accurate SMG i have ever fired is the H7K MP%.
Hard Ball is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 10:38 PM   #5
Blue Duck357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2000
Posts: 1,460
So what kind of accuracy are we talking about for an MP5, 2-3 inch at 50 yards reasonable?

Thanks, Blue Duck

Blue Duck357 is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 11:05 PM   #6
Byron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: Sandia Park, NM
Posts: 270
This topic came up on another board, and it was pointed out that it may depend on whether you are talking about one shot or a burst. Since the question is about subguns, bursts seem more to the point. A closed-bolt gun will have a more accurate first shot, but may not be as easy to hold on target after that. One guy said after the first shot, an Uzi holds the target better than an MP5, I guess because it has more weight up front. A Swedish K might be even more accurate; you can empty a whole 71-round drum onto an IPSC target at 30 yards. Any of the older heavy subguns (Thompson, Lanchester, MP28, MP34, ERMA, Steyr-Solothurn, etc.) would be similar. Properly set up MAC's have often beaten MP's in subgun competitions where no-shoots make accuracy critical.
Byron is offline  
Old January 17, 2001, 08:31 AM   #7
Blue Duck357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2000
Posts: 1,460
Sorry, I should have posed the question more clearly. I mean semi auto groups of say 5 shots off a bench.

Thanks, Blue Duck
Blue Duck357 is offline  
Old January 17, 2001, 09:47 AM   #8
BigG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,313
I'm sure...

the Colt 9mm AR15 variant subgun would have to be a close 2nd, if that.
__________________
o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
BigG is offline  
Old January 17, 2001, 06:30 PM   #9
Apeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: The 'burbs of chicago
Posts: 167
accurate subguns

I've never owned one, but the guns at http://www.tromix.com look very accurate. They sell AR15 uppers in calibers like .44 magnum and .50 AE, which are technically submachine guns, but they're accurate enough to hunt with. In a real sense, though, the MP5 would probably be the most accurate.
Apeach is offline  
Old January 30, 2001, 06:47 PM   #10
hk_cqb
Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 97
MP5A2

After demo-ing for a private security firm, they went for the MP5-A2 for it's controllability under sustained fire. The colt 9mm variant was also fairly accurate.
hk_cqb is offline  
Old January 31, 2001, 09:51 PM   #11
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,921
I'm inclined to think that the closed bolt smgs like the HK MP5 or UMP are more accurate than the open bolt since the "lurch" of the open bolt gun can throw you off slightly. Accuracy is a factor which depends on the operator and the condition of the firearm. Remember that sustained full auto fire wears out a barrel faster than anything else (besides enthusiastic scrubbing with a sectionalized steel rod and stainless steel brush). Furthest we ever fired in practice was at 75 yards and with iron sights, we went for the chest. We have an old thread here where some folks went beyond 100 yards.
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old February 2, 2001, 12:20 PM   #12
Sea Bass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 176
Hi,

I've shot the Uzi, MP5 and Tommy gun in full auto and in burst. My personal preference is the Uzi followed by the MP5. Tommy gun wasn't that bad either.
Sea Bass is offline  
Old February 2, 2001, 01:46 PM   #13
Hard Ball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 3,925
The Thompson may b obsdlte, but it is a lovable gun and a great deal of fun to shoot!
Hard Ball is offline  
Old February 2, 2001, 03:41 PM   #14
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Uzi's suck for accuracy! Auto or semi, they stink.

Robert
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old February 4, 2001, 07:06 PM   #15
Spectre
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 23, 1998
Location: DC
Posts: 3,274
Hm. Spartacus says he can keep his hits to 200 yards on a paper plate, from prone.

I have only fired his burp gun once, but the Uzi's weight and the 9mm round certainly made it very controllable.
Spectre is offline  
Old March 23, 2001, 09:39 AM   #16
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA
Posts: 2,361
No, I said a circle of a full size dinner plate. (Those extra inches between a standard paper plate and the full size dinner plate count I'm not talking a 'group' here-more like a diagonal string with one bullet at around 8 o'clock, one more or less in the center, and one about two o'clock) With three shot bursts not sustained full auto. But then if I need full auto beyond three shot bursts, I really need a beltfed,in my opinion.

Oh, Robert, what kind of accuracy you looking for? I've never fired an H&K SMG so I can't compare but firing three shot bursts at twenty yards at head sized targets...I'd be willing to go for head shots at that distance in a real situation. Much further than that and I'll take a rifle.
Byron Quick is offline  
Old March 23, 2001, 12:48 PM   #17
Oleg Volk
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7,022
1931 Suomi SMG, esp. when equipped with a bipod.
Oleg Volk is offline  
Old March 24, 2001, 06:51 AM   #18
Long Path
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 5,888
Throw my vote to the MP5. I've shot it alongside other SMG's at 200 yds, and was really very impressed with the relative accuracy of the MP5. Add in the fact that it actually possesses good sights with which one can utilize the improved inherent accuracy, and you end up with practical accuracy.

The UZI's problem is really that its sights don't allow for precise shooting under ANY circumstances.

The Thompson SMG has adequate sights, but that open bolt creates quite a lurch after you squeeze the trigger.

[snort] What?! No votes for Madsons, Ingrams, or Riesings? (heh)

--L.P.

[Edited by Long Path on 03-26-2001 at 02:00 PM]
Long Path is offline  
Old March 24, 2001, 07:48 AM   #19
M16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 16, 1999
Posts: 489
The MP5 is the most accurate. I own two as well as a 9mm coversion for my m16. In full auto there is no comparison. The MP5 is so smooth while the Colt 9mm tends to be jerky. The Uzi isn't in the same ball park. A transferable MP5 will cost you around $8000 and so will the Colt. You can get an Uzi for less than $3000. That should tell you something.
M16 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10618 seconds with 9 queries