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Old October 14, 2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Oddzball
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Had a 9mm blow the back of the cartridge out along the rim? What the heck?

100 grain LRN Bullet
5 grains of win 231
R-P 9mm Luger Case(Maybe reloaded 2-3 times)


I was shooting a Taurus PT92, felt a little bit of powder blowback hit my cheek, looked at the chamber and the round hadnt ejected all the way. Pulled the round out, slide was fine and moving freely but the little lever/rail piece that cocks the trigger(on the side of the gun) was jammed up, had popped out of place. So trigger and hammer were seized up.

I investigated the casing and found it had blow out a small bit right after the rim. Rest of the case look positively fine actually.

Cant really double charge it since its a 9mm, and i weigh the powder every 15 rounds or so and everything was always within margins...


So, cant figure this one out.

Either I screwed up somehow,
It was bad brass
Or something is wrong with the pistol and the slide wasnt closed all the way/locked?

Anyone care to help me out? Thanks.
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:09 PM   #2
Oddzball
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The part that popped out of place was the trigger bar btw...
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:23 PM   #3
Oddzball
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Here is a picture. Oh and smoking is bad kids... dont do it...

EDIT, got picture loaded.. darn computers.. and sizes and stuff....
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File Type: jpg 2012-10-14_19-21-52_155.jpg (214.7 KB, 130 views)
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:28 PM   #4
Crankgrinder
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looks lik partial case head separation to me, had this case been reloaded a few times before?
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:28 PM   #5
Jim Watson
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Just a couple of weeks ago, a guy here split a case in the extractor groove, not as bad as that. But it still blew the sideplate and the extractor off his Kahr CM9.

I do not recall his exact load but it was with 231 within handbook limits.

I think he had bullet setback against the feed ramp, which reduced the "combustion chamber" volume and increased pressure until the brass split.

Maybe you did, too.
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:33 PM   #6
Oddzball
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Could you explain what you mean by "bullet setback against the feedramp"?

As for how many times the round has been reloaded..

Well, to be honest since I got it off the ground at the range I cant say for sure, but i inspect the cases and everything seemed to look fine. To be honest I'm one of the only guys who reloads there except a few others and they wouldnt have let me take their brass..

I KNOW I have reloaded it twice. SO this would be the third firing for that brass.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:07 PM   #7
Oddzball
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Here is a picture, reload is the lead flat nose on the right.

Took the barrel off my PT92 and dropped a bunch in the barrel, they seem to chamber fine... they all seem to spec.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:10 PM   #8
snuffy
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Quote:
Could you explain what you mean by "bullet setback against the feedramp"?
Sure. The bullet impacts the feed ramp just under the chamber after the round is stripped from the magazine. This can and does sometimes drive the bullet further into the case. This causes less space for the powder charge. This in turn causes higher pressure.

That 5.0 charge of W-231 could cause enough pressure to blow a case if the bullet was sitting right on top of it.

I'm not familiar with the PT92, does it have an unsupported chamber that allows that kind of blow-out?

Check your loads after seating and crimping them by trying to push the bullet further into the case. Do it by sitting the bullet against your bench, then pushing on the back/head of the case. You should NOT be able to move it.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:21 PM   #9
Oddzball
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PT92 is like the berretta 92F its fully supported thats why the only thing i can think is the bullets werent chambering all the way, otherwise how could it even blow out like that...

After a little more examination it does appear the rear of the reload cases are "slightly" bigger, but when i say slightly i mean .393 versus the factory size of .391, and sizing die is all the way to the shell holder....

I tried to see if the bullet could be pushed in, and thats not happening. Couldnt even budge it a bit.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:32 PM   #10
Oddzball
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FOudn this interesting bit of information;

CZF members generally consider the following brands to be less desirable for reloading purposes:

1. Remington (headstamps "R-P," "UMC," etc.);
2. Fiocchi (headstamp "FIOCCHI");
3. PMC (headstamp "PMC");

Remington brass is softer than the other major U.S. brands.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:05 AM   #11
chris in va
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Reloading lead is a somewhat risky procedure. You get the occasional bullet that wants to be slightly larger than the others and will leave a ring of lead at the case mouth. This in turn pushes the round away from the chamber a bit, and might fire slightly out of battery.

I think in your case though the brass had a weak spot.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:31 AM   #12
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Never have had a lead bullet leave a ring around the lede, other than as part of general leading problem--and never had a problem because of it.
1) Can you guarantee that that particular load had 5.0gn of 231? No chance of some powder hanging up in the powder measure, giving you a larger charge, or any chance of a loading error?
Pull the other rounds and weigh the charges.
2) If you don't know about bullet set-back, it is clear that you probably have NOT been doing the "bullet push" test. Learn it and do it, every time--very important for 9x19 and .40S&W.
3) Some cases, from almost any manufacturer, can have walls too thin and NOT hold the bullet tightly. See 2) above and trash any such cases.
4) With the gun empty, cock the hammer and dry fire. Repeat, but with the slide pulled back a little. Determine how far out of battery your gun will still fire. This could be what happened--slide just enough out of battery that the area in front of the extractor groove was more unsupported than normal.
5) What was you COL? Could your gun handle a longer COL?
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:37 AM   #13
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I see a ring around the case head of both the blown case and the LFN reload pictured..... discuss?
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Old October 15, 2012, 09:35 AM   #14
Oddzball
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I knew about bullet push back, but thats not what happened, i checked the rounds, I swear.

As for the ring around the case head?

Well, the all seem like that, its mostly because reloading dies for 9mm cant really resize that very bottom part of the case. I am not aware of a die that does to be honest.

I cant verify every single round of 9mm i turn out has 5 grns of 231, I check every ~10-15 rounds or so with the scale, but i dont weigh every powder charge.

I will pull a few and look.
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