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Old October 12, 2012, 05:40 PM   #1
smuckie
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Just getting started reloading, wife bought me a Lee Pro 1000, everyone is right about instructions and setting up, wow, oh well it's working great now, just a few questions if you don't mind, I'm loading 9mm FMJ rnd, 115 grain, Bullseye powder, been told 4.7 grains is what I should be aiming for, whats my max and just to make sure, what auto disk should I be using? Right now I'm using the .46 cc hole and getting about 4.4 grains when I weigh it, also does it matter what brand bullet I use for that charge as long as its 115 grain rnd and I keep the length right, also do I use a different charge for HP's of same weight, thanks for any help, I'll probably be asking more questions soon,
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Old October 12, 2012, 06:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
been told 4.7 grains is what I should be aiming for
Welcome!

Hopefully you have checked multiple sources before deciding on a starting load. The 9mm can be very sensitive to changes in bullet seating depth. And all bullets are not the same length, so DO NOT assume the same OAL will give the same pressure when changing bullets of the same type and weight.

Bullseye is a fast burn rate powder and you are more likely to get into problems with it than a slower burning powder.

Keep asking questions, and enjoy your new hobby.
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Old October 12, 2012, 06:20 PM   #3
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Get a Manual or TWO ; ) PS Look for powder & bullet info

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Old October 12, 2012, 08:50 PM   #4
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There is a pretty good difference between lead, plated and jacketed bullets and the amount of powder you will use for the minimum and maximum loads. Not all lead, plated and jacketed bullets are the same even for the same weight. There resistance going down the barrel varies. This is due to the profile and the hardness or material of jacket and the thickness of the jacket. Lots of things effect resistance. Getting as close as you can to the bullet you plan to use is important to finding the min./max. powder amounts.

Hollow point bullets have a shorter OAL most of the time. You need data that relates to the bullet you want to use. Having multiple sources for data is a good thing. You never know when an error gets published. Multiple sources will help you identify those errors. Two or more sources with very similar data normally are going to keep you out of trouble. No matter what you are loading you should start low and work the load up slowly to get what you are looking for. I stay away from top end 9 mm loads just to keep me out of trouble. I also find most top end loads are not as accurate as a load less than max. I have had plenty of trouble with minimum loads not cycling my pistols.

Make only a few (5 to 10) of something you are trying out. You might want to make 5 to 10 of each increment from min to max to test. Start with the min loads and shoot from a rest or sand bags to try to take out the human factor for testing. Once you find the load you think is the best, don't make more than 50 at first. After shooting all 50 at one outing you may find you want to adjust that load a little up or down. I hate pulling bullets. the fewer I need to pull the better.

Also when testing be certain there is a hole in the paper for every shot you make. You don't want to try to shoot a second shot with a bullet lodged in the barrel. That will make your range trip very unpleasant.

Lyman, Spear, and Lee make pretty good books to start with for getting load data. Also check with the bullet manufacture and powder manufacture to see if they also have load data for you to get a good reference. There is no such thing as too many sources. I tend to use the same ones over and over again until I start a new caliber then I want as many as I can get my hands on before I start loading them. Asking questions here is good, but getting your own data is better. I know I have upon occasion thought I remembered a load I have used when asked. When I look in my load note book I sometimes find I quoted the wrong thing. Mistakes happen. Another good reason to have multiple sources.

This site gives you another source but I have found some of those loads listed are on the hot side. Make certain you have at least one more source before using these loads.

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=
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Old October 12, 2012, 10:36 PM   #5
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Welcome! Just a tip for you with the autodisk and Bullseye powder. I get excellent accuracy if I tap the powder holder a couple times right before I charge the case. If you don't you might vary by .2 grs or so on each load.

Mac
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Old October 13, 2012, 07:16 AM   #6
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Lots of good advice above, but as a user of the Lee Autodisk you need to be aware of it's limitations with metering flake powders such as Bullseye and Unique. These types of powders can sometimes "bridge" or bind up and cause erratic powder drops, especially in the 3.0-4.5gr range.

Also, you can't just look at the powder disk setting sheet that came with the Autodisk or take advice off of a forum and start cranking out rounds. Something I have done that has been a real time saver in the long run is to test your powder drop with a scale and write down the results for reference. For example, after running through 10 or so charges to make sure the system is primed, throw and weigh another 10 charges. Write down the Minimum, Maximum, and Average powder drop for that powder disk setting then move onto the next size hole. That should help speed things along when you want to try out a different charge.

Another important step when loading is to verify the powder charge with a scale after every 5th or 10th round to make sure things are staying consistent. This is in addition to visually checking EVERY case to make sure that it has about the right amount of powder (not empty, not a double charge). Personally, if I was loading near max I would be weighing every charge which pretty much negates the efficiency of a progressive setup.

One last piece of unsolicited advice. You might want to consider a different powder considering the limitations of the Autodisk. I used to use Unique (which has even bigger flakes) but got tired of getting inconsistent throws. I switched to HP38 (same as W231) which is a ball powder and is EXTREMELY consistent within +/-0.1gr.
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Old October 13, 2012, 08:26 AM   #7
smuckie
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Advice

Thanks guys, great advice so far, keep it coming, I am getting a manual today, I have weighed couple dozen charges and they do vary about .2 grams, going to try different powder when this gone, I went by several resources but still wish Lee had a better explanation of their charts, oh well, I'm learning and enjoying it besides the problems
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Old October 13, 2012, 08:44 AM   #8
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I hope you are loading "grains", not "grams." Two entirely different units of weight. Get that manual, and don't touch your equipment until you've read the material at the front on how to reload.
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Old October 13, 2012, 12:52 PM   #9
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Thanks for asking our advice. Welcome to the forum and to reloading.

One caution. Bullseye is one of the most energy-dense (by weight and by volume) powders, so be as precise as you can with your charge weights. Weighing each and every charge would be advisable until you verify that your measure is dropping consistent charges.

When I started loading I would drop a charge that I knew to be lighter than desired. Then I would pour the charge into my scale's pan, trickle enough powder to come up to weight and pour the powder from the pan back into the casing.

I managed 50 rounds an hour, but had absolute confidence my charges were all the same. And I confirmed what level of confidence to give my powder measure.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

p,s, if you load in batches of 50 (a loading block is good for this and only costs about $7 or you can make one yourself) you can charge all 50 cases and then shine a light into all of them and see that the depth of powder is the same in all the cases.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; October 13, 2012 at 03:08 PM.
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Old October 13, 2012, 01:50 PM   #10
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With the 9mm and its small capacity, high pressures and it being a sensitive round, the check the charge every 5to 10 is good.

I prefer the HS6 as it is impossible to double charge it and it meters better (and I love B Eye but a tiny error and ungh)

I still use a single press and I inspect the cases for look of powder depth.

I had some a while back (rifle) that were not right. They had been measured, not sure what went wrong. Low not high so not likely to be an issue (at least with the powder I was using, some powders will cause issue if too little used).

Go slow and double check everything and auto powder charge needs to be very carefully checked.
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:21 AM   #11
Misssissippi Dave
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I'm using ball type powder for 9 mm loads. It is much easier to get them to work well with most powder measures. I have used other powders. Since I do load on a progressive press, weighing each charge is a pain. If I were to go back to a single stage, I might change my mind on the powder I use.

Once you get a load you are really happy with, I suggest buying components in bulk. Normally this helps to get your cost per round lower.
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Old October 14, 2012, 03:23 PM   #12
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Instead of waiting until you use up all of your Bullseye to try a new powder I would suggest getting a pound of HP38 or W231 or something else that will meter better. You can always come back to the Bullseye once you get a better feel for the process and consistency, but as others have mentioned 9mm and Bullseye can get very exciting very quickly.
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Old October 14, 2012, 05:03 PM   #13
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Smuckle,

The limitation of the VMD charts is they assume every lot of powder has the same bulk density as the last. It doesn't always work out that way. Only Western Powders (Accurate and Ramshot), AFAIK, posts bulk density tolerances for their powders, and it gets as high as ±5.6%. That means those standard VMD tables could be off by that much¹. So, you still have to use a scale to verify what you are actually getting.

That said, the tables should get you somewhere in the ballpark and they can reveal what the actual true VMD is for your powder lot. The VMD is just the number of cubic centimeters (cc's) each grain of powder occupies. Since the Lee powder measures are all calibrated in cc's, you need to convert from grains weight to cc's of volume. For that, you just take the number of grains of charge weight you want and multiply it by the VMD. That gives you the number of cc's you'll need to set the measure to (or choose that size disc or choose that size scoop).

Once you have the measure set, you may find the actual throws are off by ±5.6% (or whatever the number is for your powder). No problem. Measure and average about 15 throws (30 is better, but seems to take forever). Divide the number of cc's your measure is set to by the average real charge weight you measured. The result is a corrected true VMD for your particular powder lot.

Armed with this corrected VMD, go back to the beginning. Multiply this new true VMD by the number of grains of powder charge you are trying to achieve. That will give you a corrected number of cc's. Choose a disk or scoop or adjust the measure to match this new number of cc's. This time you should get the charge weight you want.

If you are using the fixed discs or scoops and don't have the exact number of cc's you want (it's usually the case that if falls inbetween two of them), you can divide the number of cc's on the sizes above and below your calculated number by your new, corrected VMD. That will tell you how many grains those two choices will actually throw, so you can select the one you prefer.



¹ Caution: the Accurate and Ramshot sites list VMD's in both metric (cc/g) and semi-English (cc/grs). That is, cubic centimeters per gram and cubic centimeters per grain. The gram version is for European users who weigh powder in grams instead of grains. Just watch that you get the right form.
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:06 PM   #14
smuckie
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Help

You guys are great, I'm learning a ton, weighing a bunch of charges and watching the charge in the case like a hawk,am going to pick up some HS6 tomorrow even though I'm pretty comfortable with Bullseye by going very slow, have shot a few of them and they are great, maybe came up with a simple solution to the primer feed, took a 2" long piece of thin stiff wire and bent it like a fish hook and I just stick it in a primer up by the primer "disk" and let it hang over the side and let it help pull the primers down the trough, just got to remember to move it every 5 shells or so, seems to work pretty well, thanks again guys, still learning and enjoying my guns
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:29 AM   #15
smuckie
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dirty cases

Hey guys back again,still enjoying reloading, had almost zero problems,till the last 50 I loaded, I had 2 out of the box not eject all the way and the outside of the cases were very dirty like they had blow by, think it could be too light of a charge, I've replaced the auto disk with a micro adjuster, and am using HS6 now, any thoughts on why just 2 of the 50 did this?
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:43 AM   #16
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Good that you are making progress from October last year. If you havent already done so, I would encourage you to incorporate use of powder manufacturers loading data into your research routine. The two you have noted so far are
Alliant at http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx
and
Hodgdon at http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Read the warnings carefully as you enter, as valuable information is listed there. From Alliant:
REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD. DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.

Especially important in the case of your use of Bullseye in 4.7 grains = max load for listed components used in mfgr recipe (similar to your OP components). Thus starting load for mfgr listed components would be 4.23 grains. Fortunately close to your noted throws of 4.4 grains.

As to your issue with 2/50 extraction problems, we would need much more information to assist = load data.
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:50 AM   #17
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Dirty cases and erratic ejection both suggest low pressure. HS-6 and other slower spherical propellants function better as pressure increases. They are not very efficient for minimum loads, and a chronograph typically shows a lot of velocity variation at lower pressure, indicating inconsistent ignition. They do much better as you move toward maximum pressure.

For good function with lighter loads, use something a little faster. Power Pistol may do well for you if you are looking at full powder loads, but for more versatility and a wider load range (from target to standard ball load power) try Hodgdon Universal.
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Old January 21, 2013, 01:21 PM   #18
Martys
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Does your wife have a "sister"? (bought you a press)!
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:16 PM   #19
smuckie
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Thanks again, I like the HS6 a little better than the Bullseye only because it doesn't seem to get all over my press, but I didn't have any other trouble with the Bullseye, and my wife does have a sister but shes taken too and she goes turkey hunting with her husband, I think I might try Winchester W231 next, any thoughts
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:24 PM   #20
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That's fine, too. Power Pistol is a relatively fine grained powder that meters well, also. 231 will be closer to Bullseye in speed and performance. If you want to stick to spherical propellants for easy metering, others you might consider include Accurate No. 2, which is close to the 231/HP38 burn rate, and Accurate No. 5, which is closer to HS6. Likewise Ramshot Zip is with the fast ones, and True Blue is a little faster than HS6.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:48 PM   #21
smuckie
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Great thanks, going to gun show Saturday, might pick up some then, like to find some paper ammo boxes with plastic or styrofoam trays too, found some online but shipping kills the good deal you find
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Old January 23, 2013, 09:30 PM   #22
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I wouldn't be starting with Bullseye. Too many stories of people with considerable experience still blowing up a gun. I think it is the number one powder invoved in reloading accidents. You lose an eye or even just a nice gun it will ruin your reloading for a long time. Maybe even forever.Bad choice for a first powder.
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:52 PM   #23
smuckie
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Powder and oal

Thanks, gonna try #2 or 231 next, also have tried cutting down OAL down from 1.015 to 1.013 and my P95 doesn't feed them very well, any thoughts?
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Old January 30, 2013, 05:05 PM   #24
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Daggit,

For a given peak pressure level in the 9 mm, correct loads of Bullseye actually fill the case better than 231 or #2, so if you look at your powder levels as you load you are less likely to let an accidental double-charge get by with Bullseye than with either of the others.

There was an article in one of the magazines (maybe Handoader) some years ago about the phenomenon called "Bullseye surprise" in .38 Special wadcutter loads. Despite claims of detonation, voodoo, the phase of the moon and about anything else you could try to blame other than the person doing the reloading, work by metallurgists showed it was actually simple double charges that were responsible. The term "Bullseye surprise" developed at a time when Bullseye was in the vast majority of center fire handgun target loads, so it followed that it would be involved in the most accidents with them. The .38 Special case, in particular, is tall enough that it's just not as easy to spot a double-charge of the common 2.7 grain wadcutter load in it, as it is a double charge in a .45 Auto or other shorter case.

In any event, I loaded more of the stuff than anything else, starting right from the beginning of my .45 Auto reloading experience (late 70's) and never had an issue nor ever knew anyone who did. That's anecdotal, of course, but it's been used for over a hundred years in target loads, including in substantial volumes by the military early on for hardball and without any special warnings about it cropping up.
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Old February 3, 2013, 02:43 PM   #25
smuckie
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bullseye

thanks Unclenick, I was loading Bullseye at 4.8 grains and they filled to about 5/8's full so a dbl charge would be impossible since I look at EVERY charge, now I'm loading Hogdon HS6 at 6.8 grains and they are 1/2 full, still wouldn't be a threat for me, I did back up case and force a dbl charge to make sure, made a mess, I like the HS6 better cause it doesn't seem to 'flip' out when my shell plate ratchets to the bullet setting die
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