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Old October 10, 2012, 01:38 AM   #51
Dashunde
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Hey, your words are getting bigger and bigger... lol.
(in case you didnt notice, I stopped talking guns with you [pointless] a post or two back)
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Hey, your words are getting bigger and bigger... lol.
(in case you didnt notice, I stopped talking guns with you [pointless] a post or two back)
I did notice your technique when debating something and cornered by your use of bad information is to withdraw instead of just admit you're wrong.
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:53 AM   #53
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Its not cornered, its bordom, and you have some kind of reading problem, I'm tired of repeating myself to you. You miss the details and dont absorb.
You lost track of the topic a long time ago.

Yep, withdrawing - completely bored of squabbling with you. Drone on if you like.
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Old October 10, 2012, 06:01 AM   #54
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40 cal. vs. 9mm

In the Kahr platform, I'd go with the 9mm. I have the P9 and it's pleasant to shoot whereas I find the .40 has a bit of snap to the recoil. I agree with the other posters that the .40 holds too little advantage over the 9mm to warrant the increased expense and recoil.

Also, if you're a CCW or primarily concerned with home defense, your needs are much different than that of law enforcement. You shouldn't be engaging barricaded gunmen, shooting through car doors or auto-glass or engaging felons much beyond arm's length.
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Old October 10, 2012, 11:40 AM   #55
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I think Dashunde and 10mmAuto should both volunteer to be shot by a 9mm and a .40S&W.

It's the only way to prove their arguments once and for all.

If they turn down this test, they are both admitting that each round is equally effective at getting the job done.

What say you, guys?
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:09 PM   #56
Dashunde
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If I had to be shot with either, I'd certainly pick the 9mm, anyone who says 40 is.. well, nuts.

I'll add to your idea... turn the perspective around... who here would want to go up against a bad guy who has a 40 in his hand? (instead of a 9)
Not me.
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
If I had to be shot with either, I'd certainly pick the 9mm, anyone who says 40 is.. well, nuts.

I'll add to your idea... turn the perspective around... who here would want to go up against a bad guy who has a 40 in his hand? (instead of a 9)
Not me.
So you are willing to take the test?

You sir, are either very stupid.... or very stupid.
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:40 PM   #58
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lol... let me put a little more emphisis on the words "If I had to be shot".
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Old October 10, 2012, 03:37 PM   #59
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lol... let me put a little more emphisis on the words "If I had to be shot".
So you ARE saying that the 9mm is equally effective then?
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Old October 10, 2012, 07:12 PM   #60
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Ok, I get the idea. Thanks!
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Old October 10, 2012, 07:37 PM   #61
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To commit the sin of staying on topic .... I have had a p9 and a pm9 for a few years and it is mild recoil wise to my perception . In fact its such a nice little pistol that i just traded into a second pm9 . I have no experience with the pm40 but have shot both the p45 and pm45 . for what its worth the pm45 seemed to have less recoil and muzzle climb than the p45 . I don't think i would want a pm40 but then i am not a .40 S&W fan ( personal preferences not any ballistic reason ) .
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Old October 10, 2012, 09:44 PM   #62
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If I had to be shot with either, I'd certainly pick the 9mm, anyone who says 40 is.. well, nuts.
With only one shot? Sure, I'd rather be shot with a 9mm. A slight difference is still a difference.

Quote:
I'll add to your idea... turn the perspective around... who here would want to go up against a bad guy who has a 40 in his hand? (instead of a 9)
Not me.
Are you saying - after all this - that a person with a .40 is usually going to be more effective than the same person with a 9mm?

I've been on this board since April and I've read a lot of posts in a lot of threads, but I've never seen as much willful ignorance than I've seen from this one person in this one thread.
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Old October 10, 2012, 10:00 PM   #63
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Oh heck, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Wait 'til we start arguing whether Ford or Chevy makes the better huntin' truck...
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Old October 10, 2012, 10:03 PM   #64
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Well, that's a easy one: Ford. And there's no way anyone can deny that!
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Old October 11, 2012, 08:26 AM   #65
Dashunde
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Are you saying - after all this - that a person with a .40 is usually going to be more effective than the same person with a 9mm?
No, not more "effective". Sad to see your reading comprehension hasnt improved.

Its simple - IF I were to be shot at, I'd much rather it be with a 9mm instead of a 40. Common sense.
Please, try not to extrapolate too much from the obvious concept of wishing to avoid the larger bullet.

Its clear to me that the willful ignorance points in your direction.
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Old October 11, 2012, 08:35 AM   #66
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Is the original source of that photo even known, and if so is it actually trustworthy? Anyone can put together a good-looking photo.

Even if it came right from the FBI test labs, basing your opinion on one photo is not very smart.

Yes, ballistic gel can show you something. But it has been said time and again by expert sources that it is not directly comparable to human tissue. When many of those same expert sources also relate real-world info from the field indicating there is negligible difference between calibers, not taking this into account is willful ignorance.
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Old October 11, 2012, 08:47 AM   #67
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My point on this subject from the beginning is this...

The 40 has more potential to inflict more damage, therefore I prefer it in a pistol large enough to shoot it well.
That does not include the PM40.

There is no ingorance, willful or otherwise, in that basic fact.
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Old October 11, 2012, 08:56 AM   #68
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Does potential really matter though, if the end result shows no significant difference?

Just so I don't miss contributing on-topic material to the thread, as a new PM9 owner I am very pleased with my purchase. One reason I would not consider the .40 is because of the possible necessity of my wife needing to shoot it. She most certainly cannot shoot the .40 as well as the 9, and that is very important to me.
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Old October 11, 2012, 09:17 AM   #69
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No, not more "effective". Sad to see your reading comprehension hasnt improved.
But you said it yourself: you'd rather face a bad guy who had a 9mm than one who had a .40. That means you think the average person will be more effective with a .40 than a 9mm.

Quote:
Its simple - IF I were to be shot at, I'd much rather it be with a 9mm instead of a 40. Common sense.
Please, try not to extrapolate too much from the obvious concept of wishing to avoid the larger bullet.
Yes, if it were just ONE bullet it's only common sense to prefer the 9mm. But in the additional scenario you presented above, I can only assume that the your fictional bad guy has a possibility of pulling the trigger more than once.

I'm starting to think you're just trolling us at this point...
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Old October 11, 2012, 09:32 AM   #70
Dashunde
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That means you think..
Sigh...
Stop putting words in my mouth or trying to twist what I say to make your arguement.
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Old October 11, 2012, 09:58 AM   #71
Dashunde
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Does potential really matter though, if the end result shows no significant difference?
AH, I think it could matter.
I'll take the 40's ballistic advantage over the 9mm's shot speed advantage.

But like I said, theres a limit to how small of a pistol I'm willing to run 40 through before the advantage sways greatly towards 9mm - the PM9 and 40 are good examples of that.

Conversely, I'll take the Glock 27 over the Glock 26, as I feel the 27 can be shot very well/rapidly with a little more practice - which is fun anyway.
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Old October 11, 2012, 10:15 AM   #72
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Sigh... Stop putting words in my mouth or trying to twist what I say to make your arguement.
You're absolutely right. After all this I still assumed you were attempting to use logic and rational thought when constructing your arguments. The fault is mine.

I should have guessed what was coming when 10mm posted this at the beginning of the thread:
Quote:
Good to see the same misconceptions coming back time and again from the same people. I've seen you post long arguments on this forum that eventually drive you to admit you base your opinion not on empiricism but just "how you feel about it".
And yet I still went ahead and assumed a rational debate was possible. I apologize for wasting everyone's time. I'm done here.
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Old October 11, 2012, 03:43 PM   #73
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Its not cornered, its bordom, and you have some kind of reading problem, I'm tired of repeating myself to you. You miss the details and dont absorb.
"If missing the details" is comprehensively dismissing them with fact, sure. I realize this is forum is not exactly a meeting of the minds when it comes to small arms domain knowledge, but your lack of ability to think critically is unusual.
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Old October 11, 2012, 04:20 PM   #74
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What a couple of three year olds.
Lock it
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