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Old October 10, 2012, 12:42 PM   #1
Eppie
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9mm 1911 single or double stack?

Hi Everyone,
I've tried two 1911 in 9mm, both were double stack, and had bad results.

Now I'm reading that some folks with SA, Kimber and Colt have had good luck so I'm re-thinking my efforts

I had a Para SPX 18.9, a beautiful gun, well made, a pleasure to shoot until it started to fail to extract. And it got worse instead of better as I shot it more. I tried cleaning it and oiling it and it didn't get better. I should have send it back to the mfg but I just I just sold it for a small loss. Now I regret not trying harder to make it work.

I also tried a Rock Island 1911A2, also a 9mm doulble stack. That one didn't work much better. It was a OK gun, but the finish is very easy, too easy, to scuff/scratch and I traded that away for a Sig P226.

One of the guys at my gun club said that it is a common problem with 9mm 1911. I'd like to hear from those that have a 9mm 1911. What brand and model do you have? How reliable is it? Can you post a picture?

Let me conclude by saying that I have two 1911s and a Glock in .45 so I have nothing against .45s. 9mm is just a personal preference.
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Old October 10, 2012, 01:54 PM   #2
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Ooooohhh interesting..

I had the exact same question. I'm thinking about saving up for a while to get my first 1911. I also will be breaking from the norm and going with 9mm. I shot my cousins Para doublestack that he borrowed from his FIL, it was in .40 though. We had two problems with fail to feeds. It seems it was always the first one in the mag after releasing the slide. We both thought it was because it was too dry.

I'm gonna be sure to subscribe to this thread to follow up.

Last edited by Yung.gunr; October 10, 2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old October 10, 2012, 02:09 PM   #3
AdrianVall
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Hmm.. interesting thread! Subscribing as well, as I'm also in the market for a 1911 but can't decide on 9mm or. 45 due to ammo cost.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
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Old October 10, 2012, 02:46 PM   #4
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1. Have you tried adding tension on the extractor, yet?
2. Also, inspect the extractor hook and hook mark on the empty case. They extractor may be worn or have been bent out of shape.
3. Also, check the Firing Pin stop fit. If the FP stop has become loose, then extractor may have some play.

My SS Kimber Target Custom II had extraction issues when new -- fixed (DIY) by adding tension the extractor and reshaping the extractor hook. Also, replaced the FP stop with EGW because stock part broke. The EGW FP stop fit better/tighter than the stock.
After the Extractor fix on the Kimber, It has been very reliable. I have shot it for a while (several years) with stock parts with no issues. I have since replaced the trigger, hammer, and sear with wilson combat parts.

Likewise, my STI Trojan (approx 2 years old) is very reliable (no issues out-of-the box).
The Kimber and STI are equally accurate but the STI has a slightly tighter fit. Also, shooting the STI feels slightly smoother than the Kimber.
=========
- My STI has been handled and shot less than the Kimber. It is starting to show some normal finish wear on the front/back strap and the grip safety. The SS Kimber still looks new.
- I like the STI fiber optic front sights better than the plain black Kimber.
- STI grip feels slightly bigger than the Kimber using the same wood grip panel.
- High Grip Safety on the STI seems like it makes the pistol point a little higher than the Kimber.
========
I have held a Springfield Armory 9mm recently; Similar to the ones I have held several years ago, the fit is not as tight as my Kimber or STI but still good. Also, grip felt more comfortable than STI or Kimber (for me).
=======
The STI spartan V looks good for the price.

BTW --- all these are single stack 1911s.
good luck and happy shopping.
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Old October 10, 2012, 06:29 PM   #5
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I've got the STI Trojan in 9mm, and it's great. I think I've had 2 ftf's in about 600 rounds, and they're due to magazine issues rather than the gun itself. I highly recommend it.
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Old October 13, 2012, 10:26 AM   #6
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At this stage in the political climate (and economy) I would lean towards the single stack because it is a vanilla proven design that will have less trouble and more people who can work on it, more available cheaper parts, mags and so forth.

I had a double stack Para 45 (kit) once and it was a problem child. If I really wanted a double stack 45 now, I would get another G21.
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Old October 13, 2012, 10:37 AM   #7
Eppie
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Edward,
Thanks fr your feedback. I've occasionally considered buying a douple stack Para in 45 cal, but once burned twice shy, so I've held back. You're confirming my belief that all double stack 1911 are problematic unless proven otherwise.
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Old October 13, 2012, 04:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppie
Thanks fr your feedback. I've occasionally considered buying a douple stack Para in 45 cal, but once burned twice shy, so I've held back. You're confirming my belief that all double stack 1911 are problematic unless proven otherwise.
Now wait ...

In your other thread, you had four out of four responses (at least two of them covering multiple double stack 1911s) reporting no problems, compared to ONE response in this thread saying he had problems with a Para-Ordnance kit (which they don't even offer any more, and haven't for a few years) ... and based on that you go with the ONE response that had problems with ONE pistol that wasn't even a factory gun to conclude that "all double stack 1911 are problematic unless proven otherwise"?

I can't understand the logic behind that at all.
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Old October 13, 2012, 10:24 PM   #9
Eppie
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Aguila,
It doesn't make sense because "once burned twice shy". I'm human, mostly rational, but not always. After all the whole 1911 market is irrational.

Why do people pay $1,000+ for a pistol that is 100 year old design with low capacity, when for $500 you can buy a Glock, S&W, etc.. that delivers the same bullet with greater reliability and nearly twice the mag capacity?

In marketing class they used to teach us that if customer had 19 positive experiences with a company's product all it took was one negative experiece to undo the brand goodwill that had built up with that customer. I had a bad experience.

I really would like to have a double stack Para 1911. But given my experience and that the feedback is not sufficiently positive for me to feel comfortable, it is unlikely that I will be buying another double stack. A single stack, no problem.

What I will do is look for a someone selling a used double stack. And if he is willing to go the range and let me put fifty rounds through it then I'll buy it, if not, I won't. It's that simple.

I am glad you have a couple of double stack Paras that work well for you and are totally reliable, and I envy you.

Kindest regards,
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Last edited by Eppie; October 14, 2012 at 06:40 AM.
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Old October 13, 2012, 10:33 PM   #10
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppie
It doesn't make sense because "once burned twice shy". I'm human, mostly rational, but not always. After all the whole 1911 market is irrational.

...

In marketing class they used to teach us that if customer had 19 positive experiences with a company's product all it took was one negative experiece to undo the brand goodwill that had built up with that customer. I had a bad experience.

I really would like to have a double stack Para 1911. But given my experience and that the feedback is not sufficiently positive for me to feel comfortable, it is unlikely that I will be buying another double stack. A single stack, no problem.
I understand that you had a bad experience, and if you choose to extrapolate from your isolated bad experience and avoid double stack 1911s, I can understand that and I have no problem with it.

What I CAN'T understand is why/how you extrapolate from ONE person posting that he had a problem with a gun that he built from a kit (which means only the receiver was from Para-Ordnance, because those kits were sold to convert single stacks to double stack) to get to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppie
You're confirming my belief that all double stack 1911 are problematic unless proven otherwise.
If you consider the four of us, who report no problems with something on the order of seven or eight pistols, to be too anecdotal to make you feel comfortable, surely a sample of ONE is too anecdotal to be confirmation that ALL double stack 1911s are problematic. In fact, the simple fact that even one of my Para double stacks was not problematic proves conclusively that NOT all double stack 1911s are problematic.
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Old October 14, 2012, 01:49 AM   #11
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Never had a double stack 9mm 1911. Have 2 single stacks, a Rock Island and a Springfield. With good magazines, they are 100%. The Rock island had the best trigger out of the box.
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Old October 14, 2012, 01:56 AM   #12
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Eppie, Only double stack I ever owned was a new Para P-14 Limited, I believe it was called. Nicely fitted and finsihed, Bo-Mar type rear sight,etc. Unfortunately it was not functionally reliable. Only one example,I know, but that was my first and last experience with double stack 1911s.

All of my 9MM 1911s, have been the traditional single stack. I have owned Colt, Sprigfields, Kimber and Dan Wesson 9MMs. The Colts were fine but usually took a little tuning before they were reliable. Good guns.

Factory Springfield 9MM had fitting, reliability, accuracy issues. I have a custom Springfield that is excellent, but far from stock ,so not indicative of what a NIB example would likely be.

Kimber Target II 9MM- just excellent from day one. I have owned more than one example, along with a .38 Super Tgt. II, all excellent and well worh the money IMHO. No negative issues with any of mine.

Dan Wesson- Probably the best of the production 1911 9MMs. Very well fitted and finished, quality components, evidence intrernally of competent polishing and precision fitting, reliable, accurate, no MIM, etc.


Ps, Did tried to attach a photo of my 9MM 1911s, but too big and I'm not computer literate enough to know how to make photos smaller...
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Last edited by rock185; October 15, 2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old October 14, 2012, 06:32 AM   #13
Eppie
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Highbrow, Rock185,
Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it.

Regarding your not being able to upload pictures, you can download the free FastStone Photo Resizer at http://www.faststone.org/. After you've installed it, play around withe quality settings (40-50% works for my camera) and that will reduce the file size to around 200K so you can uploaded.

Kindest regards
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Old October 14, 2012, 06:46 AM   #14
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There are a lot better more reliable pistols out there than the 1911. The only reason for buying one and i have one. Is its a classic historic pistol and for me its not a 1911 unless its in .45.
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:08 PM   #15
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Currently I have three single stack 9mm's...a Colt Combat Commander from the 70's, and a 1911A1 full size Colt, Series 70. While neither is 100% reliable, (no gun is if we're being honest), either is good enough in my experience for CCW. I had a Browning Hi-Power 9mm for part of one tour in Vietnam in 1970, that was as close to 100% as possible...I carried with confidence for 9 months in that God-forsaken hole, but never had the occasion to use it in anger. I do have another 9mm single stack now that rotates as one of my CCW guns...a Sig P290 that's been very reliable....but the best of the bunch is my wife's Glock 19 that's put 1200 round down range now, in a year and a half, with zero malfunctions. HTH's Rod
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:38 PM   #16
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Eppie, thank you sir. I'm going to try that faststone.

Rod, I've owned Hi Powers since around '66-'67, used to collect them, shot most of them, many actually were 100%. BTW, I ran into a guy up in the Central Highlands RVN, '69 or maybe early '70, with a Hi Power. I remember thinking at the time that it was pretty cool, since my guys ( Armor) all had issue 1911A1s ;-)
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Old October 14, 2012, 04:14 PM   #17
rodfac
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Rock, yep with two magazines you had half a box of ammunition with you....a good friend was awarded an Air Force Cross for his work with a High Power that'd been accurized by Jimmy Clark...I'll regret til the day I die, selling the one I had. Best Regards, Rod BTW: welcome home, brother!
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Old October 14, 2012, 04:47 PM   #18
rock185
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Rod, thank you, same to you my friend.

Eppie, I'm going to try this faststone photo resizing for the first time, no guarantees. I'll try a photo of my 9MM 1911s...

Thanks Eppie, looks like it worked :-) I had to go down to 10%.

If nobody will be offended, I'm going to try the photo resizing again to attach some other photos of 1911 single stack 9MMs, just to make sure I've got this down...
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Old October 14, 2012, 04:52 PM   #19
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100 year old double stack 9mm

It's known as a Browing High Power here in the States, or a P-35 else where. Reputation for workmanship & reliability, Excellent.
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Old October 14, 2012, 06:24 PM   #20
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Only got two photos to load, but had to resize them down to about 10%. Image quality went down down down. I can't find any setting on my camera, Canon PowerShot SX 130is, to improve the situation. Low-tech old guy in a Hi-Tech world. I'll keep working on it.

Anyway Eppi, here's closer photos of my Kimber Target II 9MM, with a few changes, and custom Springfield 9MM. Both are as reliable as any of my 1911s in the proper .45 ACP caliber, and are satisfyingly accurate, especially the old Springfield with it's gunsmith-fit bull barrel.
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:53 PM   #21
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Good lookin' pistols, Rock...Rod
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